Car cranks but doesn't start

[omalak]

2008.5 mazda3 cranks but won't start. Car started fine yesterday but no go today. Battery seems ok radio works all lights work. Will take a meter to the battery and get voltage, but I think it's something else.

Ideas? I've heard about corrosion on the starter wire how can I check if thats the case?

Thanks

[Wes08M3]

If it still cranks its not likely electrical or starter related.

Do you hear the fuel pump whine when you turn the key to "ON"? Coil packs maybe? Hard to say for sure. I think the PSV problem also caused some no start issues as well.

[omalak]

Not sure what the fuel pump spunds like but i definately smell fuel PSV = PCV ? Not sure how to pin point the issue
I dont want to tow it to a dealer :(

[omalak]

Is there any significance to the fact then when i put the key into the ignition to go to "ON" position and all the dash lights come on, that after a while the CEL light blinks 7 times?

[The Wolf]

double post

[The Wolf]

Is there any significance to the fact then when i put the key into the ignition to go to "ON" position and all the dash lights come on, that after a while the CEL light blinks 7 times?

Flashing CEL usually means a multi-misfire fault which could be plugs, wires, coil pack problems. Best bet is to check for codes and go from there

[Wes08M3]

Sorry PSV is the purge solenoid valve. And I think it actually caused a stalling issue, not a no-start condition. My mistake.

With regards to the CEL blinking - usually when you are driving and you get a blinking CEL that means there's a serious issue. However, it seems as if the first gen's had the CEL flash while the key was in "ON". There was a thread about it not long ago, I think someone asked that question. Many people said their cars did it too, everyone said it was normal. I thought it was really odd, so I tried it in my gen 2 and it definitely doesn't do that :s I guess they could've just changed it on the second gens. I'll try and find that thread...

EDIT: here's the thread click (http://www.torontomazda3.ca/forum/showthread.php?70152-check-engine-light-illuminates-for-7-seconds-and-then-off-when-the-car-started&highlight=Engine+light+flashing)

[silverstarmazda]

i have a first gen and it doesnt flash 7 times...so i ignored that thread

[The Wolf]

my gen 1 doesn't do it. everything I could find through google about it said a flashing CEL industry-wide is a misfire fault.

[Wes08M3]

i have a first gen and it doesnt flash 7 times...so i ignored that thread

Seems like mostly MS3 guys said it was normal on their cars, so I dunno. Maybe all their cars are broken too :P

[Wes08M3]

my gen 1 doesn't do it. everything I could find through google about it said a flashing CEL industry-wide is a misfire fault.

Yes this is true but this is what happens while driving the car. Not just while the key is at "ON". Can't misfire if it's not running lol.

[The Wolf]

yes but I was under the impression that the computer remembers these things and if there's something like a coil-pack failure your car's not gonna start, your'e just going to flood the engine. Thus flashes when key is in "on" position to let you know something ain't right.

[Wes08M3]

omalak - if you have a buddy around just get him to stick his head under the car near the gas tank. When you turn the car to ON he should be able to clearly hear the sound of the fuel pump. Provided there isn't tons of noise in the surrounding area.

[Wes08M3]

yes but I was under the impression that the computer remembers these things and if there's something like a coil-pack failure your car's not gonna start, your'e just going to flood the engine. Thus flashes when key is in "on" position to let you know something ain't right.

That is a possibility. But then he would've had to have had some sort of misfire event before going to start the car today. Or else there'd be nothing for the computer to remember. As in a previous misfire that would've had to have occurred in order to throw a CEL in the first place. If that makes any sense.

[The Wolf]

Makes sense. I'm no expert, just tryin' to help :)

[Wes08M3]

Maybe he did have a pervious misfire. I dunno.

I still don't understand why it seems like some of these cars have a flashing CEL if you leave the key "ON" for a while and some of them don't. Makes no sense to me. Don't understand the reason for it in the first place... Unless its not supposed to happen at all and the others in that thread aren't correct.

[omalak]

Hey guys,

I saw the thread on the CEL 7 blink after I made my post!, my wife has a 08.5 hatch, i'm going to check what her car does tomorrow.

As far as I can tell I have not had a cylinder misfire evert before, like I said the car started fine yesterday, I had just finished installing hella horns and fixed up some led reflectors, started my car all was well. shut her down, got up the next morning and boom crank and no start.

my brother has a friend who works at Scarboro Mazda I will get him to look at it when he has a chance. if he cant figure it out then I will get it towed to a dealership.

I was thinking about changing out all the spark plugs, but know i'm thinking what are the chances that the car worked yesterday and today no go just because of plugs?

Also few months back I had a similar issue, car would crank and no start, called CAA (thanks to MAP) and they sprayed something into the throttle body or some valve I cant recall and eventually the engine started.

if anyone can rule out spark plugs not being a cause then I might as well get it taken to the dealer seeing as I have about 10,000k left on the warranty, if it is something like the fuel pump might as well get them to deal with the issue.

If anyone is in and around the Don Mills and Eglinton area and has an idea they think could help drop me a pm :)

Thanks guys

[Noisy Crow]

Bad imbobilizer chip in your key?

[omalak]

Bad imbobilizer chip in your key?

mmm if that was the case would the secuirty key light not stay lit up in the dash?

[Wes08M3]

mmm if that was the case would the secuirty key light not stay lit up in the dash?

I think it would. And I don't think it would allow it to crank.

No chance that a connection was unplugged when you were fixing some wires for the horns? Probably unlikely but if there was something unplugged it could've killed the spark.

[-|CHECKMATE2012|-]

My buddy had the same problem, all he did was unplug his battery for five minutes, plugged it back in and the car started. He ended up swapping the battery a day later because the same thing happened again.

[omalak]

I think it would. And I don't think it would allow it to crank.

No chance that a connection was unplugged when you were fixing some wires for the horns? Probably unlikely but if there was something unplugged it could've killed the spark.

Didn't touch any other connections, car ran fine after I installed the horns, just refused to start the next day. Battery was disconnected while I was working on the horn wiring.

The only connection I would have touched is those 2 things at the bottom of the front bumper (are they temp sensors or what?).

I checked the voltage of the battery at rest it was 12.5v which seems normal, but of course can't test under stress.

I will try disconnecting the battery for an hour or so and see if it helps.

Any other ideas?



EDIT: disconnecting battery did nothing, any potential fuses I should check if any?

[silverstarmazda]

things that come to mind when not starting is mentioned above. the fuel pressure, coil packs, electrical connections, or closed plugs on all 4. let the fuel pump prime everything, let the beeps go past. then try to start it, keep on the key for about 10 seconds (do NOT go past 30 seconds). let the starter rest, and re try. have a second car around just in case you battery goes dead.

[-|CHECKMATE2012|-]

Did you put fuel in the car before this happend?

[Jackal]

Fuel pump issue?

[omalak]

fuel was already in the car, i've got almost a full tank.

fuel pump seems to be working.

How does one check the fuel pressure, and coil packs ?

[r4BBiT]

If your fuel pump is working I would focus on spark then. I don't know if people do this anymore, but back in the day we would just take spark plug out and touch to ground and crack to see it. Like I said I don't know if this is recommended or not; here is a youtube clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUOmsGiirTU

[Wes08M3]

It's not overly easy to check the fuel pressure, I wouldn't suggest trying it. There is generally a test procedure for testing coil packs but I haven't come across one for our cars (mind you, I've never looked). Usually when a coil pack starts to go you'll get at least a few misfires and a CEL before it just completely dies out of nowhere. But I'm sure it's possible for it to die randomly.

At this point, since you still have warranty (a tow should be free, no?) I'd just bring it to the dealership and they can diagnose it since they have all the proper tools and instructions to do so. It's hard to be of very much help to you just throwing out ideas without actually getting to look at the car. I don't have many other ideas, could be a crank or cam position sensor too? Lots of things it could be unfortunately.

[peterm15]

If your fuel pump is working I would focus on spark then. I don't know if people do this anymore, but back in the day we would just take spark plug out and touch to ground and crack to see it. Like I said I don't know if this is recommended or not; here is a youtube clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUOmsGiirTU

I don't know If that will work on Mazda, but my lawn mower has coils and it works for that. I've also done this on many cars with dist caps.

Be careful though. Last time I did it on my mower I got a face full of flame.

[omalak]

Going to get it towed tonight or tomorrow, we'll see what the dealer has to say.

I can tow it to Scarboro or Gyro, any one of these more or less friendly to modded cars?

[kilo4321]

TB stuck closed?

[omalak]

TB stuck closed?

How can i check that?

Just called scarboro Mazda, they said if i bring it in, and it is not determined to be a warranty issue i will have to pay a 109.00 diagnostic fee.. Is that standard practice?

Could this issue also occur due to a MAF problem?

[S.F.W.]

How can i check that?

Just called scarboro Mazda, they said if i bring it in, and it is not determined to be a warranty issue i will have to pay a 109.00 diagnostic fee.. Is that standard practice?

Could this issue also occur due to a MAF problem?

Yes, this is standard.

[Jackal]

How can i check that?

Just called scarboro Mazda, they said if i bring it in, and it is not determined to be a warranty issue i will have to pay a 109.00 diagnostic fee.. Is that standard practice?

Could this issue also occur due to a MAF problem?

Maybe a nearby member could scan the code for you. May save you the diagnostic fee or you could buy one.

[Wes08M3]

How can i check that?

Just called scarboro Mazda, they said if i bring it in, and it is not determined to be a warranty issue i will have to pay a 109.00 diagnostic fee.. Is that standard practice?

Could this issue also occur due to a MAF problem?

Could be a MAF problem but usually it wont stop it from starting, it will just run like crap. You can try unplugging the MAF sensor connector and try to start it up and see what happens. If it does start, then its probably a bad MAF.


Maybe a nearby member could scan the code for you. May save you the diagnostic fee or you could buy one.

There is no CEL, I think thats why it's been a bit difficult to diagnose the problem.

[omalak]

FIXED

You can all kick me if you like.

Used method outlined in owners manual to start a flooded engine.

1. Ignition in "ON" position" crank for 10 seconds not depressing any pedals
2. Wait 10 seconds
3. Depress gas pedal all the way down crank for 10 seconds max with pedal depressed or until car starts.
4. If car does not start repeat step 1.

Followed steps 1 through 4 and it's up and running. it burned off some excess fuel when it started, but seems to be normal now, no CEL's.

Also verified the CEL light does blink 7 times if you leave ignition in on position once beeps have stopped. 2008.5 Mazda3

Thanks for all your help guys! Good suggestions in the thread hopefully this will be useful for others in the future.

[Wes08M3]

lol so it was flooded?? You don't come across that very often these days.

Glad to hear you got it fixed and saved yourself a trip to the dealer.

[omalak]

lol so it was flooded?? You don't come across that very often these days.

Glad to hear you got it fixed and saved yourself a trip to the dealer.

Well not sure really, but the procedure to start a flooded engine worked. not sure how it got "flooded" in the first place.

[JPJPJP]

Interesting..

[silverstarmazda]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flooded_engine

[omalak]

Like I said not sure why it acted the way it did.

Started fine friday night, then refused to start saturday morning. Just odd..

[Noisy Crow]

You probably stayed out too late with the guys or looked at the GTI across the street or something like that! :D