New problem... shuddering when I accelerate sometimes..

[Campin]

I can't deny there's not a problem with my car anymore... I've been experiencing shudders from time to time, the worst was today during that downpour in the afternoon (assuming you live in the GTA). What happens is that I find that sometimes if I accelerate too fast or I hit an uphill my car struggles... even shudders..

When this first started happening a few weeks back I ignored it and chalked it up to wind resistance, but I did find myself easing off the gas and if I just accelerate slower I could usually get past it, but as I said it felt worse when I was going up hill and today for example I had no trouble racing south on the 400 during the rain, it will only after I hit the 401 east-bound, and was heading up-hill on the collectors where it wraps over the on-ramp to the express just after the 400 (oh and it was really pouring), that it started shuddering really bad and I was afraid to try and push it past 80 km, usually when this happen I tend to ease off the gas and that seems to help it correct itself and that is kind what I did till I got to the Subway... But then when I was heading home no problems, my car seemed fine?

I've noticed my car has not trouble shifting up to 4th gear (It's a 2004 and an automatic) and when it shudders like this my RPMs do drop a little..

Any help welcome, I'm wondering if it could be spark plugs, coils, MAP or oxygen sensors? Or is it somehow torque related, torque converter? Oh and the check engine light never comes on...

[peterm15]

Check your engine mounts.

[silverstarmazda]

^ that, and check the transmission fluid

[Genpu_Mz3]

do any of your lights dim on your dash? when the shuddering happens?

[sudz]

Torque Converter? How many KM on the car?

[Campin]

Sorry I'm at work right now so trying to keep this short... Dimming lights on the dash, not that I have noticed no. The km are about 227 000... I checked my transmission fluid this morning and its good, my transmission is only about 2 years old, the old one died on me lucky I had the aftermarket warranty when I bought it and the shifting seems good. So I'm not thinking transmission. I'll check the engine mounts properly when I get home, only had time for a quick glance this morning and that was without removing the battery or coolant reservoir... But was wondering, would the engine shake a lot more on start up with bad engine mounts?

[Campin]

Also I should add I need a new ball joint, front right side and am pretty sure the front struts are going... But the shuddering happens over smooth roads so not thinking its a suspension thing, just wanted to disclose it... Just in case...

[silverstarmazda]

peterm15 is most likely right.

[Flagrum_3]

Sounds like an electrical issue...Does it happen only when raining or all the time?

I'm thinking possibly a spark plug fouled or worse a spark plug coil or two, which normally would give a CEL but only once their shot. If it's a coil initially on it's way out, it may be noticed under load; like going uphill or during heavy acceleration...But alas it could be several other things also.

-Unlikely to be mounts or Converter.

-check your plugs and check your coils for resistance.


_3

[Campin]

Morning all.... :flaming

I'm trying to check my motor this morning and can't get my battery tray out.. Those 3 10mm bolts have probably almost 10 years of rust on them and now I think I stripped 2... Was wondering if anyone as tried those ratcheting bolt removers that are supposed to help with damaged bolts (like this:http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/browse/6/Tools/Wrenches/SpecialtyWrenches/PRDOVR~0582500P/Mastercraft+Maximum+Ratcheting+Bolt+Remover,+2-Pc.jsp?locale=en), how well do they work?

Flagrum I get this a random times, I just mentioned the rain because that was the worst I ever felt it... Most noticeably I feel it up hills and if I accelerate too fast.. But the thing is I don't feel it all the time, only sometimes...

[SomeGuy]

Stop where you are.

It's probably the MAF sensor...especially with rain, you get moisture in the intake and it trips the MAF sensor but only if your throttle is high enough to pull the water through the sensor. Stock intake? Or a CAI/SRI? Either way, you can use some MAF cleaner on it to just clean things up...but the rain, not much you can do.


But yes those bolt removers work, just you won't be able to put the bolts back in.

[Campin]

Wouldn't the MAF trip the engine light? Either no harm in giving it a spray.... Anyway I check the engine mounts I could get to, the passenger side one look good but the rear mount I'm not so sure about.. it is really rusted and I took some pics..

http://imageshack.us/scaled/thumb/703/sy15.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/703/sy15.jpg/)
http://imageshack.us/scaled/thumb/35/n4g4.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/35/n4g4.jpg/)
http://imageshack.us/scaled/thumb/854/smzn.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/854/smzn.jpg/)

[Flagrum_3]

Stop where you are.

It's probably the MAF sensor...especially with rain, you get moisture in the intake and it trips the MAF sensor but only if your throttle is high enough to pull the water through the sensor. Stock intake? Or a CAI/SRI? Either way, you can use some MAF cleaner on it to just clean things up...but the rain, not much you can do.


But yes those bolt removers work, just you won't be able to put the bolts back in.

Agreed...OP, check the above and the items I mentioned, these are the most likely causes and easy to check. Forget the mounts as they would be noticeable anytime you launch the car!. But they are easy to check; while your watching the mounts, have someone rev your engine up several times. If it's your mounts, you should see excessive movement of the engine.


_3

[SomeGuy]

Wouldn't the MAF trip the engine light? Either no harm in giving it a spray.... Anyway I check the engine mounts I could get to, the passenger side one look good but the rear mount I'm not so sure about.. it is really rusted and I took some pics..

http://imageshack.us/scaled/thumb/703/sy15.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/703/sy15.jpg/)
http://imageshack.us/scaled/thumb/35/n4g4.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/35/n4g4.jpg/)
http://imageshack.us/scaled/thumb/854/smzn.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/854/smzn.jpg/)

The MAF sensor will only sometimes trip a CEL, depends how far off the reading is...if it happens to read say 10% too high it will cause the car to stutter but probably wouldn't trip a CEL. It could also be plugs as mentioned above.

Point is, stuttering/shuddering usually isn't caused by something like motor mounts...usually if your mounts are finished you get banging and other loud bad noises. That said, that RMM of yours looks damn rough although the bushing still appears to be in place.

[Campin]

Think I found the problem, first spark plug I pulled out and the that side electrode had snapped off completely and I guess is now lost in my engine someplace..... :(

I'm afraid to drive it now, do you think it's safe to at least get to the dealership so I can buy a new set of 4, figure I'll just replace them all?

[SomeGuy]

DO NOT START THAT ENGINE, PERIOD, get it towed to the dealer.

A chunk of metal like that could mess up a valve or piston and cause you serious issues.

[gotak]

Also, let us know what the dealer says caused this. Would help others in the future.

[sudz]

Picture of the spark plug?

THats crazy. i knew someone who had an STS-V (Caddy) who had this problem (part of the spark plug chipped off) it required an engine swap. She got it replaced under warranty... it was literally 500km before the warranty expired, but she took it to the dealer ONLY for maintenance, so they came up to the plate for her and got all covered.

[Flagrum_3]

Think I found the problem, first spark plug I pulled out and the that side electrode had snapped off completely and I guess is now lost in my engine someplace..... :(

I'm afraid to drive it now, do you think it's safe to at least get to the dealership so I can buy a new set of 4, figure I'll just replace them all?

When is the last time you changed out the plugs? and who did it? ...Are you sure the tip 'broke' off? I've seen some plugs where the electrode had deteriorated basically to nothing, due to certain malfunctions and/or because they were never changed..... A picture of the plug would be nice.

As Someguy stated (if the plug electrode has snapped), best thing to do is have it towed to the dealer and have them check it out. NO use taking any chances.

_3

[Campin]

Well I don't think most of ya would agree with my choice, I ended up just driving it and buying new plugs... While driving it, it didn't seem to be performing any better or worse then it has been over the last few weeks and after installing the new plugs it seems to be running a little happier.. At least for now, I tried testing it on a few hills to see if it struggled the way it has been and felt like it has more kick to it. I'm hoping whatever metal pieces were there have been blown into the exhaust and about 10 years of build up on my engine might just help to insulate those pistons & valves from any serious harm...

Bit of my rational for not towing it in, well the cost being a big one.. Seems to me I would have been looking at 500 minimum to tow it, compression check, then assuming nothing wrong the new plugs and of course whatever extra little fees they like to throw in and then the tax.... Now if something was wrong that would be much much higher and I need to replace the shock/struts soon, then the right ball joint is going and the windshield has a huge crack that I have been putting off... In short once you add up all the repairs it starts to exceed the value of the car (2004 with 227 000 km) and so I figured I would take a chance. Oh and my other reasoning was that I don't think these (uh there in fact were two broken ones) broke off right right as I was extracting them.. I think this happen sometime over the last few weeks and I drive 150 km to work so over the last few weeks I've put on between 1000-2000 km and my engine didn't kick it yet (knock on wood!), so I'm chancing it..

About those plugs.. it's kinda my fault, these plugs were the first job I ever did myself on my car.. I replaced them about 2 years ago (or 50,000-60,000 km ago) but instead of getting them from the dealership I let the guy a part source talk me into some NGK spark plug (TR6IX) that was close, as in it was iridium tipped but wrong gapping for 2.0l and I figured I could just widen the gap myself and he didn't discourage me when I suggested that, so I did that when I got home... I realize now that these were not meant for gapping and that could very well have weakened the integrity of that side electrode and made them too off-center.. Also I'm thinking the plugs the guy sold me were not considered "high mileage" plugs and that could have contributed to them burning out quicker?

Anyway I'm taking the chance, I'll keep ya updated so you can laugh at me if it craps out... oh and here are some pics of the plugs, might not the best pics though cause seems like my phone didn't want to focus sometimes...

http://imageshack.us/scaled/thumb/580/s5n3.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/580/s5n3.jpg/)
http://imageshack.us/scaled/thumb/835/l9lt.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/835/l9lt.jpg/)
http://imageshack.us/scaled/thumb/33/k9p7.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/33/k9p7.jpg/)
http://imageshack.us/scaled/thumb/545/bgy9.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/545/bgy9.jpg/)
http://imageshack.us/scaled/thumb/547/tqtz.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/547/tqtz.jpg/)
http://imageshack.us/scaled/thumb/824/jskg.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/824/jskg.jpg/)
http://imageshack.us/scaled/thumb/4/spqe.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/4/spqe.jpg/)

[SomeGuy]

Wow...the end is actually gone on the couple of plugs :| I'm surprised your car was running at all with them gone like that. Crazy.

Guess if the car is near the point of scrapping it, not much to lose by just going until it dies.

[Campin]

Wow...the end is actually gone on the couple of plugs :| I'm surprised your car was running at all with them gone like that. Crazy.

Guess if the car is near the point of scrapping it, not much to lose by just going until it dies.

Yea and I was going to try seafoaming my engine but no more, that "gunk" is probably the only thing keeping it together... :chuckle

I'm still hoping that I can get a 100km+ out of my car and will try my best to see it get there, but I do feel it has reached that point that I have to start weighing potentially expensive repairs...

[silverstarmazda]

the tips of the spark plugs might actually still be in the exhaust somewhere, caught in a converter. and yes, try a compression test and see if the engine is salvageable. i can imagine a piece like that bouncing around in the combustion chamber a couple times before its fired out the exhaust port... are you sure YOU chipped it and lost it down the hole? or did you find it like that? if you found it like that then the damage has been done and it can only get "better" from there. reason why it was shuddering was because you might of been running on 2 cyl. sometime the broken spark plugs will ark, and youll get 3-4 cyl for a quick second. and with all the fuel built up youll get a knock/shudder from time to time.

save what you can, and hopefully itll give you life for another year or more

[sudz]

I almost wondered if we were being trolled for a moment. I can't believe the engine would run with 2 spark plugs in that condition. If you know anyone with a borescope... I'd be interested to see inside of your cylinders. My dad has one but hes up north.

[silverstarmazda]

the surprising thing is that it didnt even throw a code....

[Campin]

No trolling here, this car has been a bit of lemon but I still like it and has kinda forced me to try to learn what I can mostly because i just don't trust mechanics.. also I think its good knowledge to learn..

I don't think I snapped those side electrodes when I pulled them out or at least that is the chance I'm taking and I think the damage has been done because my car has been acting a little weak for the last few weeks and really acted up on Saturday, but I guess I'll know soon enough cause as you said silverstarmazda the damage would have already been done if that is the case.

But as a side note, those two spark plugs were on the passenger side and I tried to break off the two on the driver side after pulling them out to see how weak they were but the metal was still firm... So in short is there a reason why the passenger side would do that but the drivers side would not? Did i gap them wrong? Just curious...

[silverstarmazda]

the spark plug could of been running very hot if theyre not correct for our cars. could of cause the tip to fatigue over time and eventually give. the ark now has a bigger gap to jump in order to ignite the fuel. the ark doesnt jump all the time due to this so that could cause the shuddering. honestly...if your not getting any leaks, compression is still there, and the engine needs some TLC, then maybe you can save it. but itll never be the same as before all your problems.

our cars are very picky of what spark plugs they use. so its best to get OEM if you car isnt built up. its expensive but i think they last for a long time.

[Flagrum_3]

No trolling here, this car has been a bit of lemon but I still like it and has kinda forced me to try to learn what I can mostly because i just don't trust mechanics.. also I think its good knowledge to learn..

I don't think I snapped those side electrodes when I pulled them out or at least that is the chance I'm taking and I think the damage has been done because my car has been acting a little weak for the last few weeks and really acted up on Saturday, but I guess I'll know soon enough cause as you said silverstarmazda the damage would have already been done if that is the case.

But as a side note, those two spark plugs were on the passenger side and I tried to break off the two on the driver side after pulling them out to see how weak they were but the metal was still firm... So in short is there a reason why the passenger side would do that but the drivers side would not? Did i gap them wrong? Just curious...

Most likely or it could be something weird as in your water jackets are clogged enough to have that part of the engine running hotter, as an example...Anyways, if there was going to be damage, it would have happened immediately. I'm mean serious damage. It is more likely there has been some scarring of the bore or piston but obviously not serious as the engine has not choked. Get your cooling system checked and changed out if you haven't done it in a while would be my immediate suggestion.

_3