Is the Wax-based rust-proof in dealers better than oil-base in aftermarket?

[nagasima]

Is the Wax-based rust-proof in dealers better than oil-base in Krown?

the dealer says it is better because it is wax so 1) it doesnt drip, 2) it doesnt need to re-apply every year, only need to inspect 3) it doesnt smell 4)better drilling skill than in aftermarket like krown.

its about $800 wiht life-time warrenty. I dont care about the price but i do want to know if what the dealer saying its true.
I dont want it to drip, i dont want to re-apply every year and i certainly prefer better rust-proof.
so everyone, is the dealer right or not? and is the wax-based material safe to children?

what's ur opinion?

[Cab0oze]

You'll get mixed feedback. If you talk to companies that sell oil based products, they'll tell you that 'wax doesn't flow as well so it won't get into all the little crevices where rust can start, blah blah blah'
Bottom line, if you don't have to pay to reapply every year, it is not messy and you plan on keeping the car for over say 6 years, go for it! The lifetime warranty is what you're paying for really, not the product.... and krown's lifetime warranty only works if you go to krown every year, and doesn't cover mazda rust anyway lol

-edit-
think i didn't answer all your questions. Yeah the wax based stuff doesn't make a big oily drippy mess like krown does. And I'm not sure why you're worried about it being safe for children, are you concerned they will attempt to eat your new car? :P

[SirWanker]

@ O/P - what is with these multiple posts? You repeated the same question ( with just a slight variation in wording) three times in your original thread.
Just go with the solution that works with you since they both come with written guarantees.
BTW - have you noticed the rear wheel wells yet :P?

[Jenuine]

I think oil-based is better. It gets into all cracks and crevices of your car and prevents rust from the inside.

Krown drips for a little while but just park it on the street for a week, or lay something down in your garage/driveway and it should be fine.

Granted, Krown needs to be re-applied every year for the warranty to be in effect but it's worth it. If the dealer is charging you $800 for wax, I'd rather take that money and Krown it every year and it should cover you for about 7 years.

[bluntman]

OP also posted in RFD.

My reply in that thread remains the same, you can find an oil based aftermarket rust proofing solution for less than what the dealer is charging.

I go to FXAuto to for a wax based (drip-less) rust proofing (I forget how much it cost initially, but it sure wasn't $800) and it has to be reapplied annually for $60.

[tweak_s]

OP also posted in RFD.

My reply in that thread remains the same, you can find an oil based aftermarket rust proofing solution for less than what the dealer is charging.

I go to FXAuto to for a wax based (drip-less) rust proofing (I forget how much it cost initially, but it sure wasn't $800) and it has to be reapplied annually for $60.

Probably a stupid question but just out of curiosity bluntman, do you think one could switch to FXAuto's Wax based rust proofing if they're already using Krown (e.g. discontinue the use of Krown and switch to the wax type)

[bluntman]

I would say YES, but it would be best to ask FXAuto.

[Jackal]

I would say YES, but it would be best to ask FXAuto.

I'd recommend the wax type if the vehicle is brand new and free of dirt and moisture. Ensure you go as soon as possible after purchase. You probably only need to get it done once. It usually doesn't come off unless you take a degreaser and rub it off. Any reapplication is pretty much coating any dirt and dust. If they do reapply then ask them to clean off and dry that area first. Hope this helps.

[mickey_g]

Fyi even with the wax based dealer option you have to take the car in for inspection yearly. If you don't the warranty is gone...$800 is a bit high though especially if you bought a brand new car from them...I paid around $500 for it

[Cab0oze]

I think oil-based is better. It gets into all cracks and crevices of your car and prevents rust from the inside.

Granted, Krown needs to be re-applied every year for the warranty to be in effect but it's worth it. If the dealer is charging you $800 for wax, I'd rather take that money and Krown it every year and it should cover you for about 7 years.
Krown does not prevent mazdas from rusting, this has been shown (dare I say proven) multiple times. I have first hand experience with this as well.

In the end, it comes down to two important factors. Warranty, and cleanliness.

- Oil is horrible, it makes your whole car disgusting to work on, makes your engine bay and doors a total mess.
- I have seen about 3 topics over the years regarding people trying to claim warranty work with Krown (with rusty mazdas) and were denied because it was 'surface rust' lol

Read your warranty fineprint I guess, I had assumed that the dealer one wouldn't have this 'surface rust' caveat BS, but hey you never know.

[peterm15]

Krown only covers " perforation"

Which means if it rusts bad enough to get a whole. I have never seen a Mazda rusted that bad.

[captobvious75]

Krown ftmfw

[Jenuine]

Krown does not prevent mazdas from rusting, this has been shown (dare I say proven) multiple times. I have first hand experience with this as well.

In the end, it comes down to two important factors. Warranty, and cleanliness.

- Oil is horrible, it makes your whole car disgusting to work on, makes your engine bay and doors a total mess.
- I have seen about 3 topics over the years regarding people trying to claim warranty work with Krown (with rusty mazdas) and were denied because it was 'surface rust' lol

Read your warranty fineprint I guess, I had assumed that the dealer one wouldn't have this 'surface rust' caveat BS, but hey you never know.

I think it also depends on the car/owner. My coworker has an '06 Mazda 3 and she's never rust proofed it but has no rust. I've seen '08+ Mazdas with rust but I think it's because either the rusted area was in an accident before or it started with stone chips that were left unfixed. With the amount of salt that's dumped on the roads, if you don't fix stone chips, your car is going to rust.

Mazda claims that the 2nd gen 3s have been somewhat redesigned so they shouldn't have rusted wheel wells like the first gens... I guess we'll see lol.

Even the dealer rust proof warranty fine print says it only covers perforation.

Even though the oil makes the car disgusting to work on, it's the best repellent to water and moisture. But any type of rust proofing is better than no rust proofing.

[Cab0oze]

I think it also depends on the car/owner. My coworker has an '06 Mazda 3 and she's never rust proofed it but has no rust. I've seen '08+ Mazdas with rust but I think it's because either the rusted area was in an accident before or it started with stone chips that were left unfixed. With the amount of salt that's dumped on the roads, if you don't fix stone chips, your car is going to rust.

Mazda claims that the 2nd gen 3s have been somewhat redesigned so they shouldn't have rusted wheel wells like the first gens... I guess we'll see lol.

Even the dealer rust proof warranty fine print says it only covers perforation.

Even though the oil makes the car disgusting to work on, it's the best repellent to water and moisture. But any type of rust proofing is better than no rust proofing.
Well it is impossible to fix stone chips inside the wheel well that you cannot see... our paint is so weak it is crazy. But people rustproof their mazda's thinking that this will protect them against the dreaded wheel well rust... it wont.

I got my rust professionally fixed by mazda - new doors, fixed trunk third brake light etc, and rustproofed at krown the next day. The following year, the trunk was starting to re-rust again so my take on it, for Gen1s at least (repeating myself):
1. Your wheel wells are gonna rust unless you regularly inspect them inside and out for rockchips, and keep the crap off the inside lip.
2. If you've got a mazda with rust problems (bad metal?) your car is going to rust no matter what, so don't waste money on rustproofing if you're just trying to avoid these two things.
3. You say any rustproofing is better than no rustproofing. I partially disagree - if you get any rustproofing that involves drilling your car, you're opening yourself up to a whole bunch of new issues that you would never normally have had, especially if they dont do a good job of it.

[Flagrum_3]

Well it is impossible to fix stone chips inside the wheel well that you cannot see... our paint is so weak it is crazy. But people rustproof their mazda's thinking that this will protect them against the dreaded wheel well rust... it wont.

I got my rust professionally fixed by mazda - new doors, fixed trunk third brake light etc, and rustproofed at krown the next day. The following year, the trunk was starting to re-rust again so my take on it, for Gen1s at least (repeating myself):
1. Your wheel wells are gonna rust unless you regularly inspect them inside and out for rockchips, and keep the crap off the inside lip.
2. If you've got a mazda with rust problems (bad metal?) your car is going to rust no matter what, so don't waste money on rustproofing if you're just trying to avoid these two things.
3. You say any rustproofing is better than no rustproofing. I partially disagree - if you get any rustproofing that involves drilling your car, you're opening yourself up to a whole bunch of new issues that you would never normally have had, especially if they don't do a good job of it.


I'll partially agree with your first 2 points (somewhat), but your third is simply speculation. Every vehicle ever rust-proofed at Krown has been drilled, including mine. Many Krown "proofed" vehicles are still around decades later with no rust anywhere, including surrounding the drilled holes. My 2005 has 'ZERO' rust on any of the body panels and zero rust around the drilled holes....How do you account for that?

As for which is better; wax or oil, oil wins hands down. Oil will protect metal and disperse moisture, wax will not and I'm speaking of Krown here in particular. Wax will just coat and seal in moisture. Anyone ever take a close look at a vehicle that has been wax coated? ....I have, and it's a JOKE. They spray a dab on the outside services and nothing on the inside, they don't cover prone areas very well such as your door panels etc. also.

Another thing that must be understood; NO rust treatment on earth will protect against 'SURFACE RUST'. Surface rust can be caused by several things, but usually starts from stone chips, scratches etc.. i.e. unpreventable. If one does not check periodically for chips and scratches and deals with them promptly, you'll get rust...pretty simple.

The Mazda issue with the 1st generation seems to be due most likely to bad engineering/design of specific areas. Rear tail light areas will hold moisture, the wheel well rust seems to start in the exact same area almost always, pointing again to design (improper seal?). Proof of this is in their changes to these areas in the 2nd generation.

Rust proofing, using the proper method is the best route if you plan on keeping the vehicle long term, but it must be done immediately, not months or years after purchase. I had mine on the hoist at Krown less then an hour after I picked her up. Rust proofing such as Krown not only protects metal areas from perforation but also protects all your metal (gas, brake) lines, electrical connections, hinges, locks etc.

Best route on a new car is Krown IMO.

_3

[Jackal]

Here's a Globe and Mail article on this by an auto expert.
http://m.theglobeandmail.com/globe-drive/car-tips/auto-experts-take-on-rust-proofing-your-car/article1389148/?service=mobile

Here are a few quotes:


I have mentioned before that auto dealerships use these services to make up for the low profit margins on the sale of the vehicle. They push after-sale accessories to boost the bottom line - which is fine. That said, personally, I am not a fan of rust proofing. However, there are people that swear by this treatment. I have to add that the only time I would ever suggest rust proofing is right after the purchase of a brand new vehicle and only if it has not been driven, and you plan on keeping the car or truck for a very long time. The vehicle has to be spotless - especially the chassis.



Kurt, you asked about the "dripless oil spraying." I'm not going to make any friends with this statement: I would definitely not recommend this and I would not suggest that anyone have this re-done every year. The reason for this is the accumulation of dirt and debris in the nooks and crannies of the chassis, door pillars and inside doors. These are the places that get targeted during this process. I'm sure most of you can appreciate that spraying oil on top of dirt will not be effective at protecting the metal buried underneath the dirt. The same goes for the inside of door panels. Dust collects everywhere in a vehicle, to think otherwise tells me that whoever makes a statement like this has never worked on cars or trucks.

My take: Any on-going, annual application of so-called rust proofing is not a good idea.

As for the "Ziebart" style of rust proofing, this of course is a brand name and has become the slang term for pretty much all spray on waxy coatings. I am not a big fan.


Now before I get bombarded with e-mails telling me I don't know what I'm talking about and "I've had this done to all my new cars," let me say that I have personal experience with rust proofing. I used to be the guy at a Ford dealership that sprayed this stuff on cars and trucks...and let me tell you, the coating is only as good as the skill of the guy on the end of the spray gun... 'nuff said.

Good job raising this issue and to your question - sorry but I don't like either system.

[Flagrum_3]

What makes this guy an Expert? Cause he worked at a Ford dealership lol. I can see why he would expect to be bombarded by emails. But that being said, some of his points are correct and notice the intentional non-mention of annual REGULAR oil-spraying. He's talking about the dripless and wax type applications, which are crap. He can't say anything against regular oil-spaying, cause he knows it works...Actually the only one that works.


_3

[Cab0oze]

Well his point that spraying stuff on top of dirt isn't going to do a damn thing is a good one. Also Flagrum, with respect to what you said:


Wax will just coat and seal in moisture. Anyone ever take a close look at a vehicle that has been wax coated? ....I have, and it's a JOKE. They spray a dab on the outside services and nothing on the inside, they don't cover prone areas very well such as your door panels etc. also.
OP was talking about doing it at at vehicle purchase (or at least thats what I assumed... maybe wrongly), which I presume would be pretty good. I def wouldnt ever think about doing this after driving the car around. Also, no I haven't seen any vehicles that were wax coated, but your comment comes down to the application I think more than the method/product. I've seen piss poor krown applications too, my own car being one. Had to take it back 2 times for them to actually get it all right.

[Flagrum_3]

Well his point that spraying stuff on top of dirt isn't going to do a damn thing is a good one. Also Flagrum, with respect to what you said:


OP was talking about doing it at at vehicle purchase (or at least thats what I assumed... maybe wrongly), which I presume would be pretty good. I def wouldnt ever think about doing this after driving the car around. Also, no I haven't seen any vehicles that were wax coated, but your comment comes down to the application I think more than the method/product. I've seen piss poor krown applications too, my own car being one. Had to take it back 2 times for them to actually get it all right.

Where do you think moisture would occur? Do you think only on the outer surfaces? ...No, moisture occurs 'within' the panels and wax is not sprayed there. Wax also doesn't flow, so all the nooks and crannies will not be protected. So when dealing with wax in particular, no matter how it is applied and by whom you'll never get proper coverage. Dripless does not run either so the same outcome.

As for the dirt issue, in actuality, it is not dirt or dust that one needs to be worried about, it is water, moisture. Most every time I've had my vehicle sprayed, I've inspected the vehicle for dirt and guess what?, there was very little on the under-pining's, dust maybe but not dirt. When being sprayed, most 'dust' is moved aside by the force of the spray and fresh oil is put in it's place....Anyways the point is, the oil will stick to the metal, somewhat penetrating the metal and will keep moisture off the metal, ...this is how rust is inhibited.

_3

[Cab0oze]

Where do you think moisture would occur? Do you think only on the outer surfaces? ...No, moisture occurs 'within' the panels and wax is not sprayed there. Wax also doesn't flow, so all the nooks and crannies will not be protected. So when dealing with wax in particular, no matter how it is applied and by whom you'll never get proper coverage. Dripless does not run either so the same outcome.

As for the dirt issue, in actuality, it is not dirt or dust that one needs to be worried about, it is water, moisture. Most every time I've had my vehicle sprayed, I've inspected the vehicle for dirt and guess what?, there was very little on the under-pining's, dust maybe but not dirt. When being sprayed, most 'dust' is moved aside by the force of the spray and fresh oil is put in it's place....Anyways the point is, the oil will stick to the metal, somewhat penetrating the metal and will keep moisture off the metal, ...this is how rust is inhibited.

_3Not sure what panels you're talking about, but until you drill into a panel there aren't any holes. If there are holes, moisture isn't trapped there. Anyhow I'm not gonna argue with you about this, this whole subject has been beaten to death.

About the dirt, I know you're wrong here because I have felt inside my rear wheel well lip. There is always moist dirt/dust/whatever buildup in there. If you spray oil on that, it is not going to disperse it, it sits on top. To be effective at all, you need to actually thoroughly clean every 'nook and cranny', which nobody does. At best, people get an automated car wash before going to get their car sprayed.

-edit-
corrected a bunch of terrible grammar in there, jeeze I'm really slipping

[Jenuine]

Well his point that spraying stuff on top of dirt isn't going to do a damn thing is a good one. Also Flagrum, with respect to what you said:


OP was talking about doing it at at vehicle purchase (or at least thats what I assumed... maybe wrongly), which I presume would be pretty good. I def wouldnt ever think about doing this after driving the car around. Also, no I haven't seen any vehicles that were wax coated, but your comment comes down to the application I think more than the method/product. I've seen piss poor krown applications too, my own car being one. Had to take it back 2 times for them to actually get it all right.

Doesn't the dealer just drive his car to a shop that they're affiliated with and have them apply wax on it? I heard that the dealer will charge a lot for it, but it'll only cost them a fraction of what you're paying, which is how they make profit lol. $800 is way too much.

[Cab0oze]

Doesn't the dealer just drive his car to a shop that they're affiliated with and have them apply wax on it? I heard that the dealer will charge a lot for it, but it'll only cost them a fraction of what you're paying, which is how they make profit lol. $800 is way too much.Yeah i have no idea. You could be right in which case that is horrible.... but in the end, it still comes down to the warranty.

[Flagrum_3]

Not sure what panels you're talking about, but until you drill into a panel there aren't any holes. If there are holes, moisture isn't trapped there. Anyhow I'm not gonna argue with you about this, this whole subject has been beaten to death.

About the dirt, I know you're wrong here because I have felt inside my rear wheel well lip. There is always moist dirt/dust/whatever buildup in there. If you spray oil on that, it is not going to disperse it, it sits on top. To be effective at all, you need to actually thoroughly clean every 'nook and cranny', which nobody does. At best, people get an automated car wash before going to get their car sprayed.

-edit-
corrected a bunch of terrible grammar in there, jeeze I'm really slipping

I meant all panels, everything from door panels to quarter panels and rocker panels etc. Unless you have the interior of these panels protected they will rust, unfortunately. As for the dirt issue again. Didn't we establish that the vehicle should be sprayed when brand new? ....

All following years, yes you may need to clean the vehicle VERY WELL, including wheel wells before having it sprayed, what's the problem?, ...I do it!. If anyone is too lazy to do so, then they shouldn't complain about rust forming. I agree, this topic has been beaten to death, yet people still question what is the better way to go, when oil-spray should be by now, established as the best route, ...drilled holes or not.

_3

[Flagrum_3]

Oh and forgot to add to my comment, if anyone wants to see proof that Krown works? They can take a close look at my Mazda3, drilled hole locations and all....I rest my case ;)


_3

[Cab0oze]

Oh and forgot to add to my comment, if anyone wants to see proof that Krown works? They can take a close look at my Mazda3, drilled hole locations and all....I rest my case ;)


_3
I'm curious to know... Is your undercarriage rusty?

[Jackal]

Oh and forgot to add to my comment, if anyone wants to see proof that Krown works? They can take a close look at my Mazda3, drilled hole locations and all....I rest my case ;)


_3

There is no case to prove. Sometimes people don't rustproof and they don't have rust while others who Krown or have rust based rustproofing get rust.
Just wash it regularly and decontaminate the paint, clear off salt in the undercarriage and if you think it helps rustproof.

[Flagrum_3]

To Cabooze's question; Nope.

To Jackal; Show me an '05 with as little rust as mine, that hasn't been rustproofed, repainted or repaired/ replaced and I'd be surprised. I'm including all undercarriage/suspension here also.

If you still think that is not enough proof, I'm stumped.

_3

[Jackal]

To Jackal; Show me an '05 with as little rust as mine, that hasn't been rustproofed, repainted or repaired/ replaced and I'd be surprised. I'm including all undercarriage/suspension here also.

_3
So you admit that it didn't stop it from rusting despite rustproofing it every year.

[Cab0oze]

To Cabooze's question; Nope.

_3Now that is impressive... i have yet to see a 2007 and below that isn't rusted to hell on the underside. now i really do want to see lol

[aris]

So you admit that it didn't stop it from rusting despite rustproofing it every year.

when my rust was repaired the owner of the body told me mine is in excellent condition cause of the rust proofing I did.... He said these cars are bad and mine would have being worst if I don't spary mine every year.

Flagman has a valid point.... If his car does have rust and it's very minor that it would have being really bad if it wasn't sprayed....

Flagman if your car does have rust Krown will cover it as long as you sprayed it every year... My local Krown told me they've had to fix a couple Mazda's.

[aris]

Now that is impressive... i have yet to see a 2007 and below that isn't rusted to hell on the underside. now i really do want to see lol


My 08 with 200,000km is black underneath and still looks new with no rust... Krowned every year since brand new

[Cab0oze]

My 08 with 200,000km is black underneath and still looks new with no rust... Krowned every year since brand new

Yeah but its an 08 so that's not that relevant yet. My chassis (08) has never been rustproofed and its only got the occasional spot of rust. My old 04 on the other hand was solid rust.

[Jackal]

when my rust was repaired the owner of the body told me mine is in excellent condition cause of the rust proofing I did.... He said these cars are bad and mine would have being worst if I don't spary mine every year.

Flagman has a valid point.... If his car does have rust and it's very minor that it would have being really bad if it wasn't sprayed....

Flagman if your car does have rust Krown will cover it as long as you sprayed it every year... My local Krown told me they've had to fix a couple Mazda's.

Haha. I knew this would attract your aris attention. Rust and detailing threads. Just waiting for you to chime in. Anyways he goes by Flagrum_3 not Flagman.

[aris]

Haha. I knew this would attract your @aris (http://www.torontomazda3.ca/forum/member.php?u=6096) attention. Rust and detailing threads. Just waiting for you to chime in. Anyways he goes by Flagrum_3 not Flagman.


Lol

[Flagrum_3]

So you admit that it didn't stop it from rusting despite rustproofing it every year.

Oh contraire, there is practically zero rust. There is 3 or four small areas underneath, that get exposed to the elements it seems, when driven, that have some light surface rust.-Most likely due to the oil being removed by the elements and I'm talking suspension, sub frame here, nothing major...Not a spec on any body panels whatsoever> 210,000 km and 8+ years of daily use.

_3

[Jackal]

Oh contraire, there is practically zero rust. There is 3 or four small areas underneath, that get exposed to the elements it seems, when driven, that have some light surface rust.-Most likely due to the oil being removed by the elements and I'm talking suspension, sub frame here, nothing major...Not a spec on any body panels whatsoever> 210,000 km and 8+ years of daily use.

_3


My 08 with 200,000km is black underneath and still looks new with no rust... Krowned every year since brand new

My car has basically zero rust on it. It is protected by wax based rustproofing. So I guess both are good. ;)
But again I'd have to state that there are still some cars with rust issues that even though they have been applied with wax based rustproofing and even Krowned cars. We can't just use our cars and extrapolate from that.

[aris]

My car has basically zero rust on it. It is protected by wax based rustproofing. So I guess both are good. ;)
But again I'd have to state that there are still some cars with rust issues that even though they have been applied with wax based rustproofing and even Krowned cars. We can't just use our cars and extrapolate from that.


I'm not sure why you quoted me... I never said waxed base rust proofing is bad...

[Flagrum_3]

To Jackal; Ha-ha, a 2010 model? I would hope so...Anyways, another point people should understand; A lot of the Mazda rust issues seem to stem from exterior panels rusting inward, i.e., from the exterior surface inward. What I personally worry about is the other rusting, the one you don't see till it's too late; that bubbles from the inside-out. This is the worst type of rust and will be undetectable until it rears it's ugly head. By this time, it's too late and you can expect to basically give up the car or spend thousands trying to fix it, to no avail...This type of rust WILL NOT be prevented by wax based coatings whatsoever, as for one, they do not apply the wax internally-(Inside the many panels). Oil type spray, is applied and does cover these internal areas, hence the need to drill in some locations. You may not see this type rust for 7, 8 even 10 years, but when you do you can assume the whole car is shot. This fact will mean little too many here that would never dream to keep a car that long, but for some of us who enjoy keeping their cars long-term, it's fundamental.

_3

[Jackal]

I'm not sure why you quoted me... I never said waxed base rust proofing is bad...

True. Apologies. :)

[Jackal]

To Jackal; Ha-ha, a 2010 model? I would hope so...Anyways, another point people should understand; A lot of the Mazda rust issues seem to stem from exterior panels rusting inward, i.e., from the exterior surface inward. What I personally worry about is the other rusting, the one you don't see till it's too late; that bubbles from the inside-out. This is the worst type of rust and will be undetectable until it rears it's ugly head. By this time, it's too late and you can expect to basically give up the car or spend thousands trying to fix it, to no avail...This type of rust WILL NOT be prevented by wax based coatings whatsoever, as for one, they do not apply the wax internally-(Inside the many panels). Oil type spray, is applied and does cover these internal areas, hence the need to drill in some locations. You may not see this type rust for 7, 8 even 10 years, but when you do you can assume the whole car is shot. This fact will mean little too many here that would never dream to keep a car that long, but for some of us who enjoy keeping their cars long-term, it's fundamental.

_3

Yes but I think poking holes into the car could allow moisture, salt or water into those areas. Better leave those areas alone rather than put a plug that could come out or doesn't have a perfectly fitting plug. Again this depends on the skill/technique of the person rustproofing. Point is both types have their pros and cons. Both types help when applied correctly by a skilled technician especially wheb applied to a clean, moisture free vehicle.

[Flagrum_3]

Yes but I think poking holes into the car could allow moisture, salt or water into those areas. Better leave those areas alone rather than put a plug that could come out or doesn't have a perfectly fitting plug. Again this depends on the skill/technique of the person rustproofing. Point is both types have their pros and cons. Both types help when applied correctly by a skilled technician especially wheb applied to a clean, moisture free vehicle.

I guess your not listening or understanding. There are no PROs to wax whatsoever whether properly applied or not. Wax WILL NOT dissipate moisture and definitely will not prevent rust, but you can go on believing so if you like, that is your prerogative. Furthermore the plugs used by Krown are very unlikely to fall off and allow moisture into the panels....I've never had one fall out yet! Even IF a plug were to come off; any moisture allowed to enter behind the panels would cause no harm as the moisture would not permeate the oil. It would be forced to the outside/top of the oil where it would evaporate...simple physics.

_3

[Jackal]

I guess your not listening or understanding. There are no PROs to wax whatsoever whether properly applied or not. Wax WILL NOT dissipate moisture and definitely will not prevent rust, but you can go on believing so if you like, that is your prerogative. Furthermore the plugs used by Krown are very unlikely to fall off and allow moisture into the panels....I've never had one fall out yet! Even IF a plug were to come off; any moisture allowed to enter behind the panels would cause no harm as the moisture would not permeate the oil. It would be forced to the outside/top of the oil where it would evaporate...simple physics.

_3

You shouldn't use your sample of 1 car (yours) to prove a point. Just google it and you can find many examples when the technician drilled a hole too large and they've fallen out. The plugs can fall out and do fall out on occasion as I said depending on the skill of the technician. You're also assuming that the car has been perfectly coated in the panels once moisture does enter. Again depending on the skill of the technician. So to reiterate both are good depending on the skill of the technician applying it. Btw where have you been?

[Flagrum_3]

You shouldn't use your sample of 1 car (yours) to prove a point. Just google it and you can find many examples when the technician drilled a hole too large and they've fallen out. The plugs can fall out and do fall out on occasion as I said depending on the skill of the technician. You're also assuming that the car has been perfectly coated in the panels once moisture does enter. Again depending on the skill of the technician. So to reiterate both are good depending on the skill of the technician applying it. Btw where have you been?

-I'm not using just my car as an example. I stated earlier about the photo album filled with photos of happy customers at the Krown I go to, and I've met several when I'm there, so it's not me alone attesting here.

- I've been around, my daughter was visiting for the past 3 weeks, so I've been preoccupied.

_3

[aris]

You shouldn't use your sample of 1 car (yours) to prove a point. Just google it and you can find many examples when the technician drilled a hole too large and they've fallen out. The plugs can fall out and do fall out on occasion as I said depending on the skill of the technician. You're also assuming that the car has been perfectly coated in the panels once moisture does enter. Again depending on the skill of the technician. So to reiterate both are good depending on the skill of the technician applying it. Btw where have you been?


Out of all the years I've had this car or even my truck rust proof I've never had a plug fall out... Neither has my brother on his truck.