So what if he's a crack head? We already knew that

[geobur]

And you have been to how many countries and spoken to how many people while in the international stage?

I haven't but I have friends from all over the world. And I have friends who travel for work all over the world setting up servers and video conferencing setups and although Canadians are well liked...from a political or serious standpoint we aren't taken seriously

[SirWanker]

I haven't but I have friends from all over the world. And I have friends who travel for work all over the world setting up servers and video conferencing setups and although Canadians are well liked...from a political or serious standpoint we aren't taken seriously

No thanks to Herr Harper

[geobur]

No thanks to Herr Harper

Really? You just pick him? What about captain obvious Jean chretien who informed us that "Proof is a Proof" and when you have a "Good Proof", "It's Proven"

And Paul Martin wasn't much better

[Jackal]

I am not convinced that he has "nothing left to hide". More surprises to come methinks.

[brucewayne]

Spare me that lame excuse. More like collateral damage from Project Traveller where he was associating with the wrong crowd.


Late arrivals to work and early departures. Sloppy to no work done on assignments e.g. initial business case for private subway funding ( ummm nothing presented at all), less than convincing reasons for a downtown casino ( which I'm glad he failed but...)

lame excuse? sorry but i imagine that you are like most people simply don't understand enough about crime to understand the this is a politically motivated criminal investigation.

a 494 page ito is out. when is an ito 494 pages? never. but that is how little evidence and many pages they needed to get a search warrant. you can get search warrant in a matter of hours... 494 pages isn't needed unless it involves very very weak reasons. they used aerial surveillance to get this when police don't even have these at their disposal on a regular basis. and the result, project brazen resulted in 2 people being charged with 7 charges. projects typically results in 10+ people and 100+ charges. the 2 people each have 3 charges relating to what seems to be a marijuana transaction, while 1 person also has seems to be simple possession of cocaine. this will most likely get plea bargained down to community service or house arrest if not dropped altogether. so aerial surveillance could end up being community service for 2 guys. who is this not a waste of resources when real crimes are being commited?

that is a joke of an investigation to anyone who understands it. but most people just think "its criminal stuff involving criminals and hes involved with criminals so he's a criminal." And that is the point of the it. your guilty until proven innocent in most criminal cases, which can take 1-2 years if not more. And bill blair and the police know that and played that hand.

[SirWanker]

lame excuse? sorry but i imagine that you are like most people simply don't understand enough about crime to understand the this is a
a 494 page ito is out. when is an ito 494 pages? never. but that is how little evidence and many pages they needed to get a search warrant. you can get search warrant in a matter of hours... 494 pages isn't needed unless it involves very very weak reasons. they used aerial surveillance to get this when police don't even have these at their disposal on a regular basis. and the result, project brazen resulted in 2 people being charged with 7 charges. projects typically results in 10+ people and 100+ charges. the 2 people each have 3 charges relating to what seems to be a marijuana transaction, while 1 person also has seems to be simple possession of cocaine. this will most likely get plea bargained down to community service or house arrest if not dropped altogether. so aerial surveillance could end up being community service for 2 guys. who is this not a waste of resources when real crimes are being commited?

that is a joke of an investigation to anyone who understands it. but most people just think "its criminal stuff involving criminals and hes involved with criminals so he's a criminal." And that is the point of the it. your guilty until proven innocent in most criminal cases, which can take 1-2 years if not more. And bill blair and the police know that and played that hand.

soooo based on your lengthy tirade that you "know" the contents of the redacted sections? Exactly what are your qualifications on crime besides that moniker of yours?
Perhaps I'm not too bright but how is this a "politically motivated criminal investigation" based on the length of the ITO?
And why is a senior homicide detective ( name I cannot recall @moment) working on this apparently trivial case?

[brucewayne]

soooo based on your lengthy tirade that you "know" the contents of the redacted sections? Exactly what are your qualifications on crime besides that moniker of yours?
Perhaps I'm not too bright but how is this a "politically motivated criminal investigation" based on the length of the ITO?
And why is a senior homicide detective ( name I cannot recall @moment) working on this apparently trivial case?

getting a search warrant isn't that hard, it can be done in a matter of hours with GOOD reason. what need is there for a 494 page ito? its because the reasons are so WEAK. person A shoots person B. persons C and D say they saw A did it. search warrant for the location is obtained within a matter of hours. how long do you think it took to come up with a 494 page ito? the ito has pictures of vodkas bottles and ford buying juice at a gas station, none of which are illegal. this search warrant ends up wrapping up project brazen, resulting in 2 people getting 7 mostly marijuana related charges. how is any of this typical?

someone has to be lead detective don't they? what sounds better... senior homicide detective or rookie cop?

[SirWanker]

getting a search warrant isn't that hard, it can be done in a matter of hours with GOOD reason. what need is there for a 494 page ito? its because the reasons are so WEAK. person A shoots person B. persons C and D say they saw A did it. search warrant for the location is obtained within a matter of hours. how long do you think it took to come up with a 494 page ito? the ito has pictures of vodkas bottles and ford buying juice at a gas station, none of which are illegal. this search warrant ends up wrapping up project brazen, resulting in 2 people getting 7 mostly marijuana related charges. how is any of this typical?

someone has to be lead detective don't they? what sounds better... senior homicide detective or rookie cop?

The ITO had much more than "pictures of vodkas bottles and ford buying juice at a gas station". It identified the large number of times that both Lisi and Ford were co-incidentally in the same area and indirectly exchanging packages. Perhaps establishing the notion beyond a doubt that it was not co-incidental at all?
As for the homicide detective Gary Giroux, I'm sure they had other just as competent detectives available as well.

The entire Ford opus is not over yet by a long shot....

[brucewayne]

The ITO had much more than "pictures of vodkas bottles and ford buying juice at a gas station". It identified the large number of times that both Lisi and Ford were co-incidentally in the same area and indirectly exchanging packages. Perhaps establishing the notion beyond a doubt that it was not co-incidental at all?
As for the homicide detective Gary Giroux, I'm sure they had other just as competent detectives available as well.

The entire Ford opus is not over yet by a long shot....

go over the ito. its the polices job to make it look like there is something going on. it says things they like had 40 calls in the month of march, etc. ford is the mayor, how many calls does he make in a day? they say things like lisi put a bag into his car when he was at home.... ford and lisi spoke that day... lisi leaves his home later that day. so what? i put things in my bag, i speak with people throughout the day, and i leave it as well. this stuff is nothing, and judges know this. which is why they needed 494 pages to get a warrant. a cops job is to lay charges... courts and lawyers sort it out. if these packages are so important... lay some charges. there is nothing there. ford got drugs from lisi, and he did them. one of the pics in the ito is a grinder for weed. in all of project brazen they only managed 7 measly charges, 6 weed related. thats a waste of resources.... its political

[peterm15]

I Agree that it is political.

Also. It is not illigeal to consume drugs, it is however to possess them and traffic them. They do not (at the moment) have anything to charge ford with.

And I don't know if im the only one who noticed this but Blair hasn't liked ford since day 1.

[Jackal]

I Agree that it is political.

Also. It is not illigeal to consume drugs, it is however to possess them and traffic them. They do not (at the moment) have anything to charge ford with.

And I don't know if im the only one who noticed this but Blair hasn't liked ford since day 1.

Can some confirm this. Seems highly unlikely that it's legal to use "illegal" drugs. It's only illegal if you possess and traffic?

[peterm15]

Maybe I will rephrase. You cannot be charged for consuming drugs. Unless it goes against probationary restrictions. Even then the charge is breach of probation. (Or something close)

[CloudPump]

It's a catch-22.

The act of consuming illegal drugs may in and of itself not be illegal. However (unless forced against your will) you must be in possession of the illegal drugs in order to consume them.

Political? Doubtful.

Could you enlighten me/us as to what qualifies you to determine what are the standard number of pages required to get a search warrant? Have you read the ITO? I have, it seems like pretty standard police work.

-Geoff

[greffer31]

I am not convinced that he has "nothing left to hide". More surprises to come methinks.

+1. Much more to come and I think he knows it, thats why he came out with that ridiculous apology, trying to save face by being seemingly one step ahead so when everything blows up in his face he can at least go, "w-w-w-well I said I was sorry a-a-a-and I admitted I did it"

Allegedly they have wire taps on Ford and some on-star calls and stuff like that that theyre supposed to be releasing information on tomorrow

[SirWanker]

Really? You just pick him? What about captain obvious Jean chretien who informed us that "Proof is a Proof" and when you have a "Good Proof", "It's Proven"
And Paul Martin wasn't much better

I do not recall either of them doing anything to embarrass Canada on the international stage.
As for Harper:

gloating to the other G20 countries on how Canada was so superior in their fiscal policies shortly after the 2008 market crash ( irony is the safety checks put in by the Liberals saved Canada)
refusal to meet the requirements of the Kyoto(sp?) Agreement as previously signed
continuing in the same topic of sabotaging international environmental efforts , his gov't is totally committed to the tar sands producers and mining industry widely criticized for abuses
assuming an absolutist pro-Israel Middle East stance

[SirWanker]

go over the ito. its the polices job to make it look like there is something going on. it says things they like had 40 calls in the month of march, etc. ford is the mayor, how many calls does he make in a day? they say things like lisi put a bag into his car when he was at home.... ford and lisi spoke that day... lisi leaves his home later that day. so what? i put things in my bag, i speak with people throughout the day, and i leave it as well. this stuff is nothing, and judges know this. which is why they needed 494 pages to get a warrant. a cops job is to lay charges... courts and lawyers sort it out. if these packages are so important... lay some charges. there is nothing there. ford got drugs from lisi, and he did them. one of the pics in the ito is a grinder for weed. in all of project brazen they only managed 7 measly charges, 6 weed related. thats a waste of resources.... its political

Lets just agree to disagree :bang

[Shizuka_Osamu]

the guy got caught.big deal.
will he get arrested.no.will he go to jail.no.
he will enter rehab and come out with a bigger approval rating then before as this will be a feel good story.

[SirWanker]

the guy got caught.big deal.
will he get arrested.no.will he go to jail.no.
he will enter rehab and come out with a bigger approval rating then before as this will be a feel good story.

Voluntarily go to rehab? Rob Ford?
Even then, it will only be successful if Ford realizes that he has a problem.....

[geobur]

Voluntarily go to rehab? Rob Ford?
Even then, it will only be successful if Ford realizes that he has a problem.....

he has partially admitted he has a problem with Alcohol...personally I don't think his problem is with crack...it's with Alcohol

[SirWanker]

he has partially admitted he has a problem with Alcohol...personally I don't think his problem is with crack...it's with Alcohol

Not quite worded as a problem but more like "one of my drunken stupors" and his resolution is “just don’t drink as much.”

[geobur]

Not quite worded as a problem but more like "one of my drunken stupors" and his resolution is “just don’t drink as much.”

no I mean before the crack issue he admitted to having an alcohol problem...but nonetheless I agree with you that he may be in denial as to how much of a problem he has with it...not drinking enough isn't going to be enough to solve this...but I think if he went to rehab or something that will be a big step in the right direction

[SirWanker]

now that was interesting........NSFW language
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2013/11/07/mayor_rob_ford_caught_in_video_rant.html

or

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2hN8y9vD2k

but.......without knowing the context/date/location leaves it open to interpretation and:

"Also on Wednesday, the Star sent a transcript of the video, a description of the video’s contents and an offer to show it to the following people in the mayor’s circle: Ford, his brother Councillor Doug Ford, Provost, deputy chief of staff Sunny Petrujkic, spokesman Amin Massoudi, and to Ford’s lawyer Dennis Morris.


The Star invited all of them to view the video, either at their office or the Star’s office, and provide an explanation for Ford’s behaviour. None of them took the Star up on its offer as of Thursday. "

[Aitch]

Doug Ford - Worst Brother Ever.

http://www.thegridto.com/city/politics/worst-brother-ever/ (http://www.thegridto.com/city/politics/worst-brother-ever/)

[greffer31]

now that was interesting........NSFW language
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2013/11/07/mayor_rob_ford_caught_in_video_rant.html

or

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2hN8y9vD2k

but.......without knowing the context/date/location leaves it open to interpretation and:

"Also on Wednesday, the Star sent a transcript of the video, a description of the video’s contents and an offer to show it to the following people in the mayor’s circle: Ford, his brother Councillor Doug Ford, Provost, deputy chief of staff Sunny Petrujkic, spokesman Amin Massoudi, and to Ford’s lawyer Dennis Morris.


The Star invited all of them to view the video, either at their office or the Star’s office, and provide an explanation for Ford’s behaviour. None of them took the Star up on its offer as of Thursday. "

I think this is about that whole Hulk Hogan situation lol

[mathew.poulos]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2hN8y9vD2k


pretty sure he is talking about Hulk Hogen (bad impression with all these "Brooooothers").....

[CloudPump]

I think this is about that whole Hulk Hogan situation lol

I dunno... Rob's explanation for this was: "I was extremely extremely inebriated"

and he refused to say whom he was talking about... if it was Hogan he'd probably have said so.

-Geoff

[Aitch]

Exactly. If it was about meeting Hogan he'd have just brushed it off today. I just watched his response video, that is the demeanour of a guy who just saw a lot of his remaining ability to weather this storm slip away. He knew he had no honest way to explain the video, and he was struggling to find any words to say at all that wouldn't simply make things worse.

I think anyone that's been caught out in a lie or for disappointing behaviour knows exactly what he was feeling there (I'm looking at you fellow husbands and boyfriends lol).

[mathew.poulos]

Exactly. If it was about meeting Hogan he'd have just brushed it off today. I just watched his response video, that is the demeanour of a guy who just saw a lot of his remaining ability to weather this storm slip away. He knew he had no honest way to explain the video, and he was struggling to find any words to say at all that wouldn't simply make things worse.

I think anyone that's been caught out in a lie or for disappointing behaviour knows exactly what he was feeling there (I'm looking at you fellow husbands and boyfriends lol).

LMAO.


After seeing his statement I do feel like he is at the end of his rope, he was lost for words and truly looked embarrsed about it. His grave is just getting deeper and deeper at this point

[Aitch]

LMAO.


After seeing his statement I do feel like he is at the end of his rope, he was lost for words and truly looked embarrsed about it. His grave is just getting deeper and deeper at this point

The thing is after his "I have nothing left to hide" statement I have a feeling that he wasn't expecting THIS video to surface.

[geobur]

Exactly. If it was about meeting Hogan he'd have just brushed it off today. I just watched his response video, that is the demeanour of a guy who just saw a lot of his remaining ability to weather this storm slip away. He knew he had no honest way to explain the video, and he was struggling to find any words to say at all that wouldn't simply make things worse.

I think anyone that's been caught out in a lie or for disappointing behaviour knows exactly what he was feeling there (I'm looking at you fellow husbands and boyfriends lol).

I don't know what you are talking about...

I didn't have sexual relations with that woman...I swear

[CloudPump]

The thing is after his "I have nothing left to hide" statement I have a feeling that he wasn't expecting THIS video to surface.

"I have nothing left to hide, except all of the other things you don't know about yet" (in my best Mayor "Diamond" Joe Quimby voice)

-Geoff

[SirWanker]

The bright side to all of this is Doug Ford has not uttered one word in public since Monday's confession.


Doug Ford - Worst Brother Ever.
http://www.thegridto.com/city/politics/worst-brother-ever/ (http://www.thegridto.com/city/politics/worst-brother-ever/)

With a bro like that, who needs enemies?

[SirWanker]

Exactly. If it was about meeting Hogan he'd have just brushed it off today. I just watched his response video, that is the demeanour of a guy who just saw a lot of his remaining ability to weather this storm slip away. He knew he had no honest way to explain the video, and he was struggling to find any words to say at all that wouldn't simply make things worse.

I think anyone that's been caught out in a lie or for disappointing behaviour knows exactly what he was feeling there (I'm looking at you fellow husbands and boyfriends lol).

It was therapy.... I know where the couch is.....

[SomeGuy]

This thread title bothers me. Can someone please edit to remove redundant "what" and also fix the new so it's "knew".

[Shinglez]

This thread title bothers me. Can someone please edit to remove redundant "what" and also fix the new so it's "knew".

Lmao my thoughts exactly

[S.F.W.]

This thread title bothers me. Can someone please edit to remove redundant "what" and also fix the new so it's "knew".


Lmao my thoughts exactly

done

[Aitch]

The bright side to all of this is Doug Ford has not uttered one word in public since Monday's confession.


I think he talked to the Sun the day after, calling it the worst day of his life and confirming he'd been blindsided by the admission.

[SomeGuy]

done

Thanks!

If we had thanks/groans feature (like MSF has) I'd have thanked this post :)

[Scottobot]

done

Awww..
I thought the poor grammar was well-suited to a thread about Rob Ford.

[loki]

Ok

[miako]

have you guys seen this... lol

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/dailybrew/mayor-threatens-legal-action-says-much-more-morning-151240530.html

Ford denied earlier in the day allegations released in police documents, including including a claim that he had once offered to perform cunnilingus on a former female staffer.

"It says I wanted to eat her p*ssy and I have never said that in my life to her. I would never do that. I'm happily married. I've got more than enough to eat at home," Ford said in the morning. By the afternoon, Ford had faced enough pressure that he apologized for his graphic comments.

[Aitch]

Same-day apologies? Things are looking up!

[Kiewan]

have you guys seen this... lol

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/dailybrew/mayor-threatens-legal-action-says-much-more-morning-151240530.html

Ford denied earlier in the day allegations released in police documents, including including a claim that he had once offered to perform cunnilingus on a former female staffer.

"It says I wanted to eat her p*ssy and I have never said that in my life to her. I would never do that. I'm happily married. I've got more than enough to eat at home," Ford said in the morning. By the afternoon, Ford had faced enough pressure that he apologized for his graphic comments.

I was just running out the door with my gf when I saw him say this on cp24. It was a wtf moment. Hopefully it makes daily show again.

[SirWanker]

I was just running out the door with my gf when I saw him say this on cp24. It was a wtf moment. Hopefully it makes daily show again.

knock yourself out...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4siKr6qY8w

[SirWanker]

It was bad enough to hear the Ford bros as a radio program but now we have to contend with visuals as well??!
http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/straighttalk/archives/2013/11/20131114-120008.html

[rajin929]

hahaha...gangster.

lol at the "I love that guy" comment at the end...

[SKyactivmanny]

knock yourself out...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4siKr6qY8w

My god my sides hurt from laughing.

[Jackal]

He should have been a comedian. Seriously funnier than those late night talk show hosts.

[rajin929]

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2013/11/12/brampton_mayor_susan_fennell_racks_up_186000_in_ex penses.html

not to cause the thread to go off-topic but...

"Fennell’s expenses over this time period are far higher than those claimed by Toronto Mayor Rob Ford and Mississauga Mayor Hazel McCallion, who both preside over larger cities.
In 2012, Fennell expensed $57,920, while Ford spent $19,253 (almost all for office-related costs and mileage), and McCallion $38,555"

I see stories like this in local paper all the time about the crazy spending of our mayor - wish stories like this got crazy media attention as well

[CloudPump]

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2013/11/12/brampton_mayor_susan_fennell_racks_up_186000_in_ex penses.html

not to cause the thread to go off-topic but...

"Fennell’s expenses over this time period are far higher than those claimed by Toronto Mayor Rob Ford and Mississauga Mayor Hazel McCallion, who both preside over larger cities.
In 2012, Fennell expensed $57,920, while Ford spent $19,253 (almost all for office-related costs and mileage), and McCallion $38,555"

I see stories like this in local paper all the time about the crazy spending of our mayor - wish stories like this got crazy media attention as well

This was the top article on thestar.com on it's publication date and was followed up with an in-depth report on CBC news last night that included an interview with Susan Fennel. Further coverage was in the Globe & Mail as well as the National Post. Is that not media coverage?

Rob Ford makes an ass-clown out of himself and continually makes his situation worse, this is why the media circus does not stop.

-Geoff

[FoXy]

omg, I cant believe he said that on tv... BAH! hahaha. All class that guy.

[peterm15]

rajin929

http://app.toronto.ca/tcer_web/Controller?action=1&selectedYear=2009

You can select the year. 2009 david millers spending was over 200k

[Cush29]

rajin929

http://app.toronto.ca/tcer_web/Controller?action=1&selectedYear=2009

You can select the year. 2009 david millers spending was over 200k

Took a quick look - seemed like spending 40-50K was the norm for most.......probably one of the reasons the city is in the debt they are in.......the sense of entitlement and free wheeling spending led by former mayors.

Regardless of how Ford-gate plays out this is something that can and should be monitored and controlled better year over year.

[peterm15]

Its been tried by ford. resisted by the councilors.

[Aitch]

Took a quick look - seemed like spending 40-50K was the norm for most.......probably one of the reasons the city is in the debt they are in.......the sense of entitlement and free wheeling spending led by former mayors.

Regardless of how Ford-gate plays out this is something that can and should be monitored and controlled better year over year.

Yup. Spending ~30k a year in the mayor's office is definitely what puts the city millions in the hole each year
/sarcasm.

I know that's not the entirely of your point. Just having fun.

[peterm15]

No but spending 200k a year for 5 years will put you over a mil. Not including the robust budgets of other councilors. That will put you in the millions.

[SirWanker]

Its been tried by ford. resisted by the councilors.

Well he has not been transparent on what he has been spending out of his own pocket for his office budget. Not defending the councilors either.

[peterm15]

How???? Its all claimed and told on that website.

[CloudPump]

No but spending 200k a year for 5 years will put you over a mil. Not including the robust budgets of other councilors. That will put you in the millions.

Cancelling a fully funded LRT system and having to pay millions in contract cancellation penalties will also put you in the hole quite a bit.

-Geoff

[mathew.poulos]

Cancelling a fully funded LRT system and having to pay millions in contract cancellation penalties will also put you in the hole quite a bit.

-Geoff

If this is turning to a wasted funds campaign let's look at our premier....

[peterm15]

Cancelling a fully funded LRT system and having to pay millions in contract cancellation penalties will also put you in the hole quite a bit.

-Geoff

You mean like Karen stint did?

Remember she won the lrt vs subway fight. Then changed her mind. Sure ford wanted subways. But also wanted private funding.

[peterm15]

If this is turning to a wasted funds campaign let's look at our premier....

Ornge, Teleheatlh and Gas plants you mean?

[Jackal]

Now the Ford brothers are getting their own TV show on Sun News TV called Ford Nation. The circus continues.

[geobur]

Well he has not been transparent on what he has been spending out of his own pocket for his office budget. Not defending the councilors either.

I don't know why that should even matter? If he is using his personal money on things he can't justify spending taxpayers money on all power to him.


If this is turning to a wasted funds campaign let's look at our premier....

^^ +1 agreed

[Mr Wilson]

You mean like Karen stint did?

Remember she won the lrt vs subway fight. Then changed her mind. Sure ford wanted subways. But also wanted private funding.

Karen Stinz provided a transit report (which included subways) with funding solutions attached to it that the mayor voted down. Ford wants private funding, but no one is williing to drop the $300 million per km required. Ford is also responsible for firing Gary Webster (TTC GM), who in the transit world was one of the best transit minds in North America. On top of that, they fired him less than a year before he was to retire. We then had to pay him a severance of way more than 6+ months worth of salary due to his time with TTC.

[loki]

Karen Stinz provided a transit report (which included subways) with funding solutions attached to it that the mayor voted down. Ford wants private funding, but no one is williing to drop the $300 million per km required. Ford is also responsible for firing Gary Webster (TTC GM), who in the transit world was one of the best transit minds in North America. On top of that, they fired him less than a year before he was to retire. We then had to pay him a severance of way more than 6+ months worth of salary due to his time with TTC.

Preach it brother

[CloudPump]

If this is turning to a wasted funds campaign let's look at our premier....

Why are we looking at our premier? We're talking municipal politics here, not provincial. If that's the case, we should also talk about the record deficits built up by the federal team as well.

Even if provincial politics was relevent in a municipal conversation, what would bringing up the Liberal's gaffes accomplish other than my agreeing with you that they've done a terrible job, much like Rob Ford.

-Geoff

[peterm15]

Karen Stinz provided a transit report (which included subways) with funding solutions attached to it that the mayor voted down. Ford wants private funding, but no one is williing to drop the $300 million per km required. Ford is also responsible for firing Gary Webster (TTC GM), who in the transit world was one of the best transit minds in North America. On top of that, they fired him less than a year before he was to retire. We then had to pay him a severance of way more than 6+ months worth of salary due to his time with TTC.

Is he the same gm that was in charge of the st clair line?

[peterm15]

What a great front page.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/11/15/nu3y8usy.jpg

[mathew.poulos]

Why are we looking at our premier? We're talking municipal politics here, not provincial. If that's the case, we should also talk about the record deficits built up by the federal team as well.

Even if provincial politics was relevent in a municipal conversation, what would bringing up the Liberal's gaffes accomplish other than my agreeing with you that they've done a terrible job, much like Rob Ford.

-Geoff

I have no effort to put into a response, my interest in this is quickly fading

My only point was that the conversation is being derailed by moving over to expenses then to LRT's etc..


-dontneedtosignnameeverytimethisisnotemail

[SirWanker]

How???? Its all claimed and told on that website.

Yes they are but in light of the current events, I really do not believe they are truly what they appear to be.
Back in 2007, both Ford and Holyday were investigated by the Auditor-General and Integrity Commissioner due to their low to non-existent office expense claims. Both were found to be in non-compliance of the then existing policy ( http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2007/ex/bgrd/backgroundfile-8804.pdf ) . Even after that Ford's expenses were still ridiculously low.


Well he has not been transparent on what he has been spending out of his own pocket for his office budget. Not defending the councillors either.

I don't know why that should even matter? If he is using his personal money on things he can't justify spending taxpayers money on all power to him.

The point was to ensure all councillors were operating on a level playing field, i.e. those who were well off were not allowed to spend more from their own pockets for additional services.

Now Deco Labels and Tags (Fords' family company) has been providing work for the city and has been doing so before Rob was elected to council back in 2000. Since then both Ford brothers use their company to supply their offices with materials and services. Doesn’t this represent an unfair advantage for the mayor & councillor Doug over their council colleagues who don’t have access to a family firm? Do they get a family discount? If so, wouldn’t that constitute some sort of gift or donation from the private sector? He and Doug are being hypocritical if they think they can hold the moral high ground on fiscal matters of the city while they actively participates in a family business that does profitable business with the city. Not to mention that this is conflict of interest?

[Mr Wilson]

Is he the same gm that was in charge of the st clair line?

He would have been GM of Operations at the time, not Chief GM. The TTC is one of the few remaining Commission based transit organizations in N.A. Commissions are normally a mixture of elected officials and members of the public with an interest in transit and these members are elected/chosen through Council.

TTC Administration is lead/guided and is accountable to the Commission, granted there is some leeway in the ability to sway to a certain point.

In the grand scheme of things the project started even earlier as it was added to the Official Plan in 2002, so discussions would have started late 90's.

I for one wished the streetcars had the right-of-way along St Clair when I used to take it daily from Yonge to Bathurst....granted the awarding of the contract to a company that was unable to execute the construction according to the contract due to its size (from hearsay) which lead to cost over runs sucked.

Found Webster's payout from the Star.

'Webster would be paid more than $560,000 in salary (plus benefits) over two years, in compensation for being fired without just cause.'

[peterm15]

Yes they are but in light of the current events, I really do not believe they are truly what they appear to be.
Back in 2007, both Ford and Holyday were investigated by the Auditor-General and Integrity Commissioner due to their low to non-existent office expense claims. Both were found to be in non-compliance of the then existing policy ( http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2007/ex/bgrd/backgroundfile-8804.pdf ) . Even after that Ford's expenses were still ridiculously low.



The point was to ensure all councillors were operating on a level playing field, i.e. those who were well off were not allowed to spend more from their own pockets for additional services.

Now Deco Labels and Tags (Fords' family company) has been providing work for the city and has been doing so before Rob was elected to council back in 2000. Since then both Ford brothers use their company to supply their offices with materials and services. Doesn’t this represent an unfair advantage for the mayor & councillor Doug over their council colleagues who don’t have access to a family firm? Do they get a family discount? If so, wouldn’t that constitute some sort of gift or donation from the private sector? He and Doug are being hypocritical if they think they can hold the moral high ground on fiscal matters of the city while they actively participates in a family business that does profitable business with the city. Not to mention that this is conflict of interest?

You are correct there. Without a doubt. BUT it also comes down to what the money is being spent on. Didnt council just buy 6 chairs costing in the 10s of thousands. (Dont remember the exact numbers)

Its not that councilors are spending the money. Its how much and on what. Lavish dinners, bottles of wine ect is all just uncalled for.

[peterm15]

I for one wished the streetcars had the right-of-way along St Clair when I used to take it daily from Yonge to Bathurst....granted the awarding of the contract to a company that was unable to execute the construction according to the contract due to its size (from hearsay) which lead to cost over runs sucked.

Found Webster's payout from the Star.

'Webster would be paid more than $560,000 in salary (plus benefits) over two years, in compensation for being fired without just cause.'

Thanks for the explanation.

I am quite uncertain what the different levels of gm do as im sure you can tell. But I would assume Webster did hold some accountability over the project.

Where I do think the money spent could have been better placed and it could have been better executed. If the project would have come in budget (or even slightly over) the final result of St clair is nice for ttc and cars.

[CloudPump]

Is he the same gm that was in charge of the st clair line?

Not exactly.

Gary Webster became the Chief General Manager of the TTC on June 27th 2007. The St. Clair right of way streetcar line was approved in 2005. He inherited someone elses mess.

-Geoff

[midnightfxgt]

While defending his brother to CNN, Doug Ford forgets about the Grey Goose on his desk LMAO!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BZHgnA-CAAEJFGg.jpg

[r4mi5awi]

Hahaha

[CloudPump]

That just made me laugh pretty hard

-Geoff

[Cush29]

Yup. Spending ~30k a year in the mayor's office is definitely what puts the city millions in the hole each year
/sarcasm.

I know that's not the entirely of your point. Just having fun.

It's the culture it represents more so than the individual cost per budget.......spend as much as you want, vs spend what you need, not what you want.

[Cush29]

Karen Stinz provided a transit report (which included subways) with funding solutions attached to it that the mayor voted down. Ford wants private funding, but no one is williing to drop the $300 million per km required. Ford is also responsible for firing Gary Webster (TTC GM), who in the transit world was one of the best transit minds in North America. On top of that, they fired him less than a year before he was to retire. We then had to pay him a severance of way more than 6+ months worth of salary due to his time with TTC.

Really? Best transit minds in North America and the TTC is still 20 years behind the growth of ridership.....pretty sad.

[Cush29]

Me too! Is he really that daft?

I forsee the "Someone planted that in my office to frame me" outrage coming from Doug shortly.......

[Mr Wilson]

Really? Best transit minds in North America and the TTC is still 20 years behind the growth of ridership.....pretty sad.

It's simple really, how is public transit funded?

In the grand scheme of things advertising/charters/etc. is fairly small beans, there three main income sources,

1) Fare box
2) Gas tax, which only covers Operating expenses
2) Municipal investment

TTC's fare box recovery rate is approx. 70% which is better than New York (55%), Chicago (55.2%), and Montreal (57.1%). So the municipal investment in these services is much higher, granted in the US, Federal and State money may support transit.

TTC is not 20 years behind in ridership growth, it's 30+ years old in some infrastructures. You want the median fleet age (in terms of buses) to be 6 years old and meet current legislation (AODA compliant). The TTC 40 foot fleet is over 1800 vehicles and replacing many of them at $500,000 each ain't cheap. Even the brightest minds can be limited in what they can and can't do, especially when cost is considered.

[Cush29]

It's simple really, how is public transit funded?

In the grand scheme of things advertising/charters/etc. is fairly small beans, there three main income sources,

1) Fare box
2) Gas tax, which only covers Operating expenses
2) Municipal investment

TTC's fare box recovery rate is approx. 70% which is better than New York (55%), Chicago (55.2%), and Montreal (57.1%). So the municipal investment in these services is much higher, granted in the US, Federal and State money may support transit.

TTC is not 20 years behind in ridership growth, it's 30+ years old in some infrastructures. You want the median fleet age (in terms of buses) to be 6 years old and meet current legislation (AODA compliant). The TTC 40 foot fleet is over 1800 vehicles and replacing many of them at $500,000 each ain't cheap. Even the brightest minds can be limited in what they can and can't do, especially when cost is considered.

Your stats are interesting but your misunderstanding what I'm saying. Your talking about behind in infastructure, fleet vehicles etc. I'm talking about growth of the services offered...........great minds find ways to make it happen, they don't throw their hands up in the air and complain they don't have enough money to make it happen. I"m not a Toronto resident nor a frequent TTC user but it's pretty sad when you look at how limiting the offerings from TTC are in comparison to other major cities in North America - some of which you named and quoted as having a lot lower fare box recovery rate.

TTC seems to be more excuses than action from my perspective, just like the provincial gov't as it relates to the transportation infastructure. They too are way too far behind......Toronto is what the 4th biggest city in North America and where do you think their transit system ranks?

Too much bickering and debating about what to do and not enough being done - bottom line in my opinion.

[CloudPump]

Your stats are interesting but your misunderstanding what I'm saying. Your talking about behind in infastructure, fleet vehicles etc. I'm talking about growth of the services offered...........great minds find ways to make it happen, they don't throw their hands up in the air and complain they don't have enough money to make it happen. I"m not a Toronto resident nor a frequent TTC user but it's pretty sad when you look at how limiting the offerings from TTC are in comparison to other major cities in North America - some of which you named and quoted as having a lot lower fare box recovery rate.

TTC seems to be more excuses than action from my perspective, just like the provincial gov't as it relates to the transportation infastructure. They too are way too far behind......Toronto is what the 4th biggest city in North America and where do you think their transit system ranks?

Too much bickering and debating about what to do and not enough being done - bottom line in my opinion.

Really?

Your complaint is that he wasn't able to just make more busses and subways appear out of $0.00 and thin air?

"Great minds find a way to make it happen"?
Sometimes great minds are all that's keeping it together and still running.

-Geoff

[SirWanker]

Your stats are interesting but your misunderstanding what I'm saying. Your talking about behind in infastructure, fleet vehicles etc. I'm talking about growth of the services offered...........great minds find ways to make it happen, they don't throw their hands up in the air and complain they don't have enough money to make it happen. I"m not a Toronto resident nor a frequent TTC user but it's pretty sad when you look at how limiting the offerings from TTC are in comparison to other major cities in North America - some of which you named and quoted as having a lot lower fare box recovery rate.

TTC seems to be more excuses than action from my perspective, just like the provincial gov't as it relates to the transportation infastructure. They too are way too far behind......Toronto is what the 4th biggest city in North America and where do you think their transit system ranks?

Too much bickering and debating about what to do and not enough being done - bottom line in my opinion.

You are misunderstanding the "a lot lower fare box recovery rate". Those cities have guaranteed steady funding ( for maintenance and operational costs) from the gov't whereas the TTC is lacking in that aspect. The TTC has a higher reliance on the fare box for those items.

Well what do you recommend in growing the service knowing the budgetary restraint?
If you say SUBWAYS,SUBWAYS,SUBWAYS then how will that be funded?
Speaking of subways, back in the mid 90's a new line was very much being implemented until Mike Harris killed the project off and refilled the tunnels.

[Scottobot]

Your mass transit debate is way less interesting than crack and how much genitalia the mayor eats. Just sayin'.

[Jackal]

Just for you scottobot.

Check out this ad by Spirit Airlines.
"We're not smoking crack. Fly to the Toronto area (Niagara Falls airport) and other destinations from just $29.90 one-way, This fare sale is real.”


http://m.thestar.com/#!/gta/redirect/df9bd5d883c8a5e4318a66ece4fed36e

[Mr Wilson]

He made the SNL opening skit last night

[Scottobot]

Just for you scottobot.

Check out this ad by Spirit Airlines.
"We're not smoking crack. Fly to the Toronto area (Niagara Falls airport) and other destinations from just $29.90 one-way, This fare sale is real.”

Awesome. :)


He made the SNL opening skit last night

Can't wait to see it.. PVR'd it.

[asyed]

Your mass transit debate is way less interesting than crack and how much genitalia the mayor eats. Just sayin'.

this man speaks the truth! :like :D

[SirWanker]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2jRlA90LUg
Riiiiiight, two hours training in the gym, everyday? Any reporter care to verify that claim with a real-time video proof?

[Aitch]

So maybe that's why he's not in the office very much? 2 hours in the gym, then 3 to replenish those calories afterwards.

[Aitch]

So maybe that's why he's not in the office very much? 2 hours in the gym, then 3 to replenish those calories afterwards.

Edit: not 3 hours, but 4. Although I was pulling numbers out of my ass, turns out I was still underestimating (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/cheering-on-argos-ford-gets-rock-star-treatment-from-fans/article15483400/) lol.


Early Sunday, Mr. Ford gave a series of TV interviews insisting that he’ll stay in office until he runs for re-election next fall. He told Fox News he was mobbed by well-wishers for four hours as he ate dinner in a restaurant Saturday.

[SirWanker]

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b549/SirWanker/ExtPostings/fordcouncilmeeting_Driver_zps01b02c75.gif (http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/SirWanker/media/ExtPostings/fordcouncilmeeting_Driver_zps01b02c75.gif.html)
That was mature of him, as Doug talks, the mayor stands up and mimes drinking and driving and points at Councilor Paul Ainslie. Doug had just dismissed Ainslie as having "issues."

[Kiewan]

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b549/SirWanker/ExtPostings/fordcouncilmeeting_Driver_zps01b02c75.gif (http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/SirWanker/media/ExtPostings/fordcouncilmeeting_Driver_zps01b02c75.gif.html)
That was mature of him, as Doug talks, the mayor stands up and mimes drinking and driving and points at Councilor Paul Ainslie. Doug had just dismissed Ainslie as having "issues."
Classy as always. This is rather tame for him nowadays

[Jackal]

Fact: he's loving the spotlight like any celebrity. Any publicity whether negative or positive is good publicity.

[SirWanker]

Fact: he's loving the spotlight like any celebrity. Any publicity whether negative or positive is good publicity.

Only if it is completely controlled by him but once it starts to display him in a negative light....... For example the CNN interview "Toronto Mayor Showdown"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkXYORMlVRk

jeebus....Doug claims that Rob is a "social Liberal, loves Obama".....

[miako]

lol saw this earlier today...


http://youtu.be/NRdXOr-uYlU

[Cush29]

You are misunderstanding the "a lot lower fare box recovery rate". Those cities have guaranteed steady funding ( for maintenance and operational costs) from the gov't whereas the TTC is lacking in that aspect. The TTC has a higher reliance on the fare box for those items.

Well what do you recommend in growing the service knowing the budgetary restraint?
If you say SUBWAYS,SUBWAYS,SUBWAYS then how will that be funded?
Speaking of subways, back in the mid 90's a new line was very much being implemented until Mike Harris killed the project off and refilled the tunnels.

So TTC gets more from fares but doesn't get enought money from the government to pay operating costs? Is that what your saying? They can do a variety of things to adapt to the "budgetary restraint" including the following:

Do a needs assessment within the TTC and streamline the organization - I'm sure it's top heavy, beaurocratic and has way too many overpaid people running it.
Look at what TTC (non-Mgt) staff are being paid and start taking a hard line to ensure they are being paid fairly but not overpaid. I fear (I have no numbers or data to support this simply my best guess) alot of TTC staff from top to bottom are overpaid when you look at the actual job, & qualifications of the role - you can thank crappy labour neogitaions for that.

Rate increases based on TOD (time of day) ridership - increase cost in peak hours, less in non-peak

Revenue increase by charging people by lenght of trip vs one fare to ride as far as you want - See Go Train Model

General rate hike if required

Use gov't funding when it's availalbe vs bickering and infighting to the point where it's not used and a whole new "plan" is drafted by the 'new' braintrust at Toronto City Council - this has happened time and time again including the current regime.

Due to the piss poor planning in the past as it relates to this there will have to be some short term pain for long term gain if it's ever going to get better. That's the reality of it. Throwing your hands up in the air and whining that there isn't any money and the gov't should pay isn't ever going to make it any better.

[geobur]

So TTC gets more from fares but doesn't get enought money from the government to pay operating costs? Is that what your saying? They can do a variety of things to adapt to the "budgetary restraint" including the following:

Do a needs assessment within the TTC and streamline the organization - I'm sure it's top heavy, beaurocratic and has way too many overpaid people running it.
Look at what TTC (non-Mgt) staff are being paid and start taking a hard line to ensure they are being paid fairly but not overpaid. I fear (I have no numbers or data to support this simply my best guess) alot of TTC staff from top to bottom are overpaid when you look at the actual job, & qualifications of the role - you can thank crappy labour neogitaions for that.

Rate increases based on TOD (time of day) ridership - increase cost in peak hours, less in non-peak

Revenue increase by charging people by lenght of trip vs one fare to ride as far as you want - See Go Train Model

General rate hike if required

Use gov't funding when it's availalbe vs bickering and infighting to the point where it's not used and a whole new "plan" is drafted by the 'new' braintrust at Toronto City Council - this has happened time and time again including the current regime.

Due to the piss poor planning in the past as it relates to this there will have to be some short term pain for long term gain if it's ever going to get better. That's the reality of it. Throwing your hands up in the air and whining that there isn't any money and the gov't should pay isn't ever going to make it any better.

unfortunately a) riders would have a shit fit, and b) with a system the size and span of the TTC it would be near impossible to implement. How to you judge the distance of your trip if you get on at a minor bus stop on the side of the road? Even the "Freeva" in Vaughan has the little machines where you pay for your ticket prior to getting on the bus, but people ride all the time without a ticket...myself included (while I was a poor college student...not proud of it but whatever) and there is only enforcement at certain times of the day...how would they implement that with the TTC? with the plethora of different routes, and transfers?

[Aitch]

unfortunately a) riders would have a shit fit, and b) with a system the size and span of the TTC it would be near impossible to implement. How to you judge the distance of your trip if you get on at a minor bus stop on the side of the road? Even the "Freeva" in Vaughan has the little machines where you pay for your ticket prior to getting on the bus, but people ride all the time without a ticket...myself included (while I was a poor college student...not proud of it but whatever) and there is only enforcement at certain times of the day...how would they implement that with the TTC? with the plethora of different routes, and transfers?

I'm not advocating for this, but London has implemented this system and it works well. There are different fare zones (not sure if they vary with time as well) radiating out from the city center. Costs for wav zone decrease the further you get from the centre. You have a reloadable card that you tap getting on and off transit, including buses.

Again I don't know all the details but I know such systems can be implemented and run properly.

[geobur]

I'm not advocating for this, but London has implemented this system and it works well. There are different fare zones (not sure if they vary with time as well) radiating out from the city center. Costs for wav zone decrease the further you get from the centre. You have a reloadable card that you tap getting on and off transit, including buses.

Again I don't know all the details but I know such systems can be implemented and run properly.

Hmm well the card idea is kinda cool...but what happens if say someone has $3.50 left on their card, and they get on the bus and then they go to get off the bus and it is $3.75 or $4.00 how do they pay that on the spot?

Other than that it sounds like an interesting and efficient method

[Scottobot]

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b549/SirWanker/ExtPostings/fordcouncilmeeting_Driver_zps01b02c75.gif (http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/SirWanker/media/ExtPostings/fordcouncilmeeting_Driver_zps01b02c75.gif.html)
That was mature of him, as Doug talks, the mayor stands up and mimes drinking and driving and points at Councilor Paul Ainslie. Doug had just dismissed Ainslie as having "issues."

This is my concern.. he acts like a spoiled rich kid who has never had to grow up. I think when he speaks and acts he has no idea how stupid and inappropriate his comments and actions are. And I think Doug knows that too which is why he never lets Rob speak on his own, without being there to supervise.. not that he's much better.

[Mr Wilson]

Hmm well the card idea is kinda cool...but what happens if say someone has $3.50 left on their card, and they get on the bus and then they go to get off the bus and it is $3.75 or $4.00 how do they pay that on the spot?

Other than that it sounds like an interesting and efficient method

Quite often when a card is purchased, say it costs $3.00 for the card itself. $1 goes to the card and $2 normally goes to a hidden overdraft so you are able to get home. This also covers for any delay in the system for when money is added it may not go to the card right away, the system may take a few hours to update. So you are able to get home + there is other fare media still available. Think Presto also has a low warning of some sort.

This is pretty much Presto (little bit of a disaster) will cover or allow to implement. Due to the sheer size TTC has been a little slow, but pretty much all other transit agencies in the GTHA are already using Presto. YRT/Viva also makes use of zone fares.

[Scottobot]

http://www2.macleans.ca/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Ford.gif

[CloudPump]

http://www2.macleans.ca/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Ford.gif

Wow.

I hadn't looked up the video of this yet... but this is both hilarious and embarrassing all at once.

-Geoff

[Mitchell3]

I saw that earlier.. what exactly was he trying to do? lol

This whole story and thread is quite entertaining to watch from KW.

[Mr Wilson]

He said his brother was about to get into an 'altercation' on the other side of the floor and he was trying to make his way over to help.

Watching him run is hysterical.

[CloudPump]

What was he going to do if there was an "altercation"?

Get into a fight on camera?

-Geoff

[Scottobot]

this is both hilarious and embarrassing all at once.

I think that sums up the whole situation with this guy.

[Jackal]

Clear case of 'roids rage. Taking too much with his work outs.

His brother can take care of himself with a kickboxing black belt, if he was running to help him.

If it had happened to him he'd be suing fo sho!

[Mr Wilson]

What was he going to do if there was an "altercation"?

Get into a fight on camera?

-Geoff

He's done pretty much everything else. At this point, why not.

It's too bad the gif doesn't have his entire run in it.

[Kiewan]

Caught a brief glance at rick mercers rant on his show tonight. It was a good intelligent response to situation rob ford
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sfdoLedAWWg

[Aitch]

Agreed, saw that earlier. The Daily Show pointed out apparently 24% of people think he should keep his job. Sure they're crazy but it backs up what Mercer said - if you want to be the next Mayor, you better not raise taxes.

[SirWanker]

What was he going to do if there was an "altercation"?
Get into a fight on camera?
-Geoff

Considering RoFo & DoFo's behavior below and unfortunately some of the spectators took the baiting, pretty much yes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHMDQcTdbHU

[SirWanker]

Caught a brief glance at rick mercers rant on his show tonight. It was a good intelligent response to situation rob ford
<a href="http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sfdoLedAWWg" target="_blank">
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfdoLedAWWg&amp;app=desktop


Agreed, saw that earlier. The Daily Show pointed out apparently 24% of people think he should keep his job. Sure they're crazy but it backs up what Mercer said - if you want to be the next Mayor, you better not raise taxes.

Mercer was funny but also correct in his assessment of the support for Conservative fiscal restraint. The irony of all this is his hardcore supporters are predominantly people with lower-income and lower education levels, the ones who could be impacted the most by those policies.

[SirWanker]

*****NSFW Language*****

Robin William's bit on Alcoholics summarizes RoFo's current situation nicely

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLtPp_xIpC4

heh....weed too

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xosib6JQcl8

[VQ Junkie]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Unyhv-ORpCU

[geobur]

Mercer was funny but also correct in his assessment of the support for Conservative fiscal restraint. The irony of all this is his hardcore supporters are predominantly people with lower-income and lower education levels, the ones who could be impacted the most by those policies.

that is generalizing quite a bit, I am low income, and well educated (not that it matters I won't be impacted until I move to Toronto) However most of my friends/aquaintences that do support him are high income and fairly well learned. My one friend is the CEO of a circuit board company and he hopes RoFo gets reelected.

[loki]

that is generalizing quite a bit, I am low income, and well educated (not that it matters I won't be impacted until I move to Toronto) However most of my friends/aquaintences that do support him are high income and fairly well learned. My one friend is the CEO of a circuit board company and he hopes RoFo gets reelected.

Cool

[acrossthec]

RoFo's working for the weekend


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhhpz9pKyj8

[Jackal]

Rob Ford the movie starring Chris Farley.


http://youtu.be/RUY6lDja-DE

[Mr Wilson]

http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/dfb.gif?w=480&h=270

[SirWanker]

that is generalizing quite a bit, I am low income, and well educated (not that it matters I won't be impacted until I move to Toronto) However most of my friends/aquaintences that do support him are high income and fairly well learned. My one friend is the CEO of a circuit board company and he hopes RoFo gets reelected.

Not really generalizing but based on Ipsos' analysis of their polling data ( take it with a grain of salt; http://www.thestar.com/news/city_hall/2013/11/20/ford_nation_doesnt_live_in_etobicoke_according_to_ ipsos.html).

What is really irking me is the percentage of campaign contributions from people who cannot vote in the Toronto elections:
http://www.pressprogress.ca/sites/default/files/on_ford.jpg

The fact that these people do not live in Toronto yet insist on influencing in the municipal affairs of Toronto is annoying to say the least.

[geobur]

The fact that these people do not live in Toronto yet insist on influencing in the municipal affairs of Toronto is annoying to say the least.

Ya I get that for sure

[Default User]

Truth

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/11/25/4uva3uny.jpg

[Jackal]

Rob Ford is irie mon.
Seriously can anyone translate a bit?
http://youtu.be/iXpwflzSF4M

http://youtu.be/iXpwflzSF4M

[Maz3Dan]

I can't wait until the next election. Hopefully someone, anyone, but him gets elected. I don't know who still supports him, or how you can support him. Both his personal, and political record are poor at best.

[soccerboy1491]

I hope he gets re elected.

[Canadianbacon]

Also hope he gets elected, everyone in my family and friends will vote for him no problem. He's a normal person

[loki]

Normal....

[loki]

I guess I don't know any normal people then. I must be missing out

[soccerboy1491]

I guess I don't know any normal people then. I must be missing out

It happens when you grow up...

[loki]

Says the 22 year old

[loki]

You saying I need to grow up?

[soccerboy1491]

I meant you miss out when you get older :)

[loki]

Damnit

[loki]

Anyway saw the latest video and thought it was dubbed over. I guess it wasn't

[loki]

Just like "trini slap chop"

[Stathakos]

I love Rob Ford, look at his financials... Toronto would be so Facked without him. I'd revote for him a million times. Bumbaclot my yutee Rahb Fawwwwrd

[r4mi5awi]

I love Rob Ford, look at his financials... Toronto would be so Facked without him. I'd revote for him a million times. Bumbaclot my yutee Rahb Fawwwwrd

That's his only saving grace.

[Jackal]

He loves the limelight so much which is why he's so entertaining. So anyone able to translate some of what he said? Or is it just jibberish?

[CloudPump]

That's his only saving grace.

I hope this is sarcasm... his financial record is awful.

-Geoff

[Stathakos]

He loves the limelight so much which is why he's so entertaining. So anyone able to translate some of what he said? Or is it just jibberish?

Now Im no expert, but it sounds like he was talking about the Toronto Police 5 month investigation about his crack dealings with that Lisi guy. He basically said "for 5 months, he (reference to bill blair) goes there, I hide here, Bumbaclot basically means a cloth for wiping up the period blood, that women use. Often Jamaicans are stereotyped as saying this all the time as well as "rassclot"

[Jackal]

Now Im no expert, but it sounds like he was talking about the Toronto Police 5 month investigation about his crack dealings with that Lisi guy. He basically said "for 5 months, he (reference to bill blair) goes there, I hide here, Bumbaclot basically means a cloth for wiping up the period blood, that women use. Often Jamaicans are stereotyped as saying this all the time as well as "rassclot"

Thanks. I just checked online and you pretty much got it there. Thanks!
Guess he fell off the wagon.

[asyed]

I really hope the saga continues. Most entertaining mayor in my lifetime...

[Maz3Dan]

He has a terrible financial record! City debt is up, taxes are up, spending is up....so how is city finances better? He saved us a billion dollars...but has anyone actually see the numbers to back this up? The Globe, The Star, and the Post all wrote articles showing the ghost savings in the billion dollars. The only billion dollars I've seen is the one added to the city debt since he came in power.

[Arbitrageur]

He's very selective in the financials he quotes, but when you aggregate everything and factor in the next few years, we're actually worse off...

[Aitch]

LOWER TAXES!! Unless a subway gets approved... Then MORE TAXES!

[CloudPump]

LOWER TAXES!! Unless a subway gets approved... Then MORE TAXES!

Not to mention that we're still on the hook for millions in cancellation penalties for the fully funded LRT that was cancelled in lieu of an unfunded scarborough subway!

-Geoff

[r4mi5awi]

Not to mention that we're still on the hook for millions in cancellation penalties for the fully funded LRT that was cancelled in lieu of an unfunded scarborough subway!

-Geoff

Doh! Completely forgot about that f$&# up!

[midnightfxgt]

Guy has amazing financials.... why? Because he said so?

http://www.thegridto.com/city/politics/rob-fords-billion-dollar-lie/

[Maz3Dan]

The worst part is that his campaign platform was so obviously b.s., and people ate it all up!
When he was promising subways, saying the city wouldn't pay for them, the private sector would, how did people not see through that?
When he said there was enough wasted money at city hall that he could balance the budget without cancelling services AND without dipping into Miller's previous surplus, how did people not see through that?

[geobur]

I believe what he means when saying he has saved 1 billion dollars is this

“Budget committee member Councillor James Pasternak speculated that what the Fords mean is their administration has stopped the operating budget from growing each year.”

“It’s possible to imagine that under another mayor, the budget may have expanded by $300 million or so each year, or about $1 billion cumulatively over the past three budgets, Pasternak said.”

“Under Ford, while the operating budget hasn’t been reduced, it hasn’t gotten any bigger, and Pasternak said that should be seen as a major accomplishment.”

“What we’ve done is contain the growth of government, not actually shrunk it. You certainly haven’t carved a billion dollars of expenditures out of the budget.”

“I think what could be argued is various decisions by council over the past two years have prevented the city budget from growing.”

From: Mayor’s claim of $1 billion in savings puzzles councillors – Paul Moloney – Star – May 31 2013 – online

[Kiewan]

I really hope the saga continues. Most entertaining mayor in my lifetime...

Please no. I'm afraid that a lot of people are going to vote for him simply because they find it funny.

[loki]

I really hope the saga continues. Most entertaining mayor in my lifetime...

there is enough entertainment for you on youtube

let's not have saga when it comes to running the largest city in Canada. Go wax your car.

[geobur]

there is enough entertainment for you on youtube

let's not have saga when it comes to running the largest city in Canada. Go wax your car.

I tried so hard to not laugh at this...but I failed...

[Aitch]

Not to mention that we're still on the hook for millions in cancellation penalties for the fully funded LRT that was cancelled in lieu of an unfunded scarborough subway!

-Geoff

It's ok, people running for mayor are now saying they'll revert back to the LRT. So the thing that was supposed to be replaced by NEXT YEAR won't even have its replacement decided on by the end of 2014.

[Aitch]

The worst part is that his campaign platform was so obviously b.s., and people ate it all up!
When he was promising subways, saying the city wouldn't pay for them, the private sector would, how did people not see through that?
When he said there was enough wasted money at city hall that he could balance the budget without cancelling services AND without dipping into Miller's previous surplus, how did people not see through that?

The last election basically proved (yet again) that 47.11% of Torontonians are idiots who take statements at face value without considering contradictory information from multiple other sources.

[SirWanker]

The last election basically proved (yet again) that 47.11% of Torontonians are idiots who take statements at face value without considering contradictory information from multiple other sources.

Apathetic is more like it.
if Fords' ( both Rob and Doug) idiotic behaviour do not encourage a better voter turn out, then I fear for Toronto's future.

[Aitch]

Apathetic is more like it.
if Fords' ( both Rob and Doug) idiotic behaviour do not encourage a better voter turn out, then I fear for Toronto's future.

The 2010 election turnout was >20% higher than the previous two elections. No apathy there.

Actually it speaks to how strongly people want a politician to rein in spending - as does the "he can do what he wants in his personal life" line we're hearing now. Let that be a warning for potential Rob Ford opponents.

[Zotaga]

If I lived in Toronto, I would vote for Ford.

He's a bit f'ed up but unlike the other politicians, he actually does a good job of handling the public purse..

If he needs to smoke crack, get drunk, and eat his wifes ***** at home in order to be an effective mayor, then kudos to him.


The 2010 election turnout was >20% higher than the previous two elections. No apathy there.

Actually it speaks to how strongly people want a politician to rein in spending - as does the "he can do what he wants in his personal life" line we're hearing now. Let that be a warning for potential Rob Ford opponents.

[peterm15]

HIS financials are good. Councils on the other hand are not.

First thing that happened when he was striped of powers..... increase in property taxee.....

There is no way toronto financials are worse off then then Millers when you consider other variables.

[Aitch]

If I lived in Toronto, I would vote for Ford.

He's a bit f'ed up but unlike the other politicians, he actually does a good job of handling the public purse..

If he needs to smoke crack, get drunk, and eat his wifes ***** at home in order to be an effective mayor, then kudos to him.

I've made these arguments before, but......

Ford managed to somewhat restrict spending by being a loudmouth and providing a political environment where cutting spending and services was not politically suicidal. He did not do it by coming up with magic recipes that "stopped the gravy train" because there wasn't that much gravy to begin with. He's not some financial wizard that deftly cut the waste in public finances, he just said "give me a 5% decrease" and then voted for the budgets that were presented to him. Maybe that's enough for someone to vote for him. But don't pretend that he's the only budgetary guru that could have accomplished this.

His "billion dollars" saving is creative accounting and hand waving. He promised for years that he would not increase taxes, but when a subway finally got dropped in his lap because a couple of Liberal MPs wanted to get re-elected he said "more taxes are ok now".

People that think he's effed up personally but that's ok because your taxes didn't go up to much - really you should expect more out of your politicians. Would you be so happy if this guy was your boss? You were dealing with customers all day asking why they kept hearing stories of your CEO out getting drunk, high, consorting with criminals, and why the hell they should do business with you anymore? Seriously, you deserve someone better in charge of spending your taxes and representing yourself.

[Kiyomi]

he should be kicked out... tax cuts don't lead to a better economy. but the masses seem to think so which is why they vote for anyone who says they will. many others will continue to vote for him because they like the entertainment. even if theyre bullies, drug dealing/using, alcoholic mayors. stop giving Toronto a bad name and gtfo.

[Maz3Dan]

Many of his supporters say the same thing, so i ask:

Why has the city debt gone up as much as it has? It gook Ford 3 years to amount as much debt as Miller in 7.
When using Ford numbers, Miller saved the city 2 billion dollars (i can post The Star article regarding this), though both statements are equally insane.
He is paving the way for a subway to nowhere, property tax is increasing due to this money pit.
City revenue has gone down over the last few years he has been in office, leading to a smaller surplus.
Firing people, and giving them large farewell packages aren't exactly fiscally responsible.
Cancelling LRT lines and having to shell out big bucks is not fiscally responsible.

Having the 23rd best attendance record last year, is not exactly showing leadership at City Hall.
I'm just skimming the surface...i don't see that responsibility.....

[CloudPump]

If I lived in Toronto, I would vote for Ford.

He's a bit f'ed up but unlike the other politicians, he actually does a good job of handling the public purse..

If he needs to smoke crack, get drunk, and eat his wifes ***** at home in order to be an effective mayor, then kudos to him.

Have you actually looked at his finacials or are you just repeating what he's saying? If you actually look at the raw numbers, every analysis shows he has done a piss-poor job of "respecting the taxpayer" and a great job of marketing a lie about savings.

-Geoff

[CloudPump]

HIS financials are good. Councils on the other hand are not.

First thing that happened when he was striped of powers..... increase in property taxee.....

There is no way toronto financials are worse off then then Millers when you consider other variables.

You do realize that property taxes are being increased to pay for the Scarborough subway that he insisted on having built? The previous plan for the LRT replacement was fully funded and wouldn't have needed a tax increase to pay for it.

-Geoff

[peterm15]

You do realize that property taxes are being increased to pay for the Scarborough subway that he insisted on having built? The previous plan for the LRT replacement was fully funded and wouldn't have needed a tax increase to pay for it.

-Geoff

Fords plan for the subway was voted down but karen stint and the bored. Then about a month later they said "were going to build subways instead"
That was a loss for ford that ended with the transit outcome he wanted

[geobur]

Fords plan for the subway was voted down but karen stint and the bored. Then about a month later they said "were going to build subways instead"
That was a loss for ford that ended with the transit outcome he wanted

^^this he wasn't really given much other choice now was he? When all his other ideas were scoffed at or ignored or turned/voted down...there are only so many ways to pay for a multi billion dollar infrastructure improvement.

being left with no other option...how else would you have suggested he pay for it?

[peterm15]

Ford didnt raise the tax. It was done after he was stripped of powers. He also voted against the 2.something increase. He wanted a 1. something.

[Aitch]

^^this he wasn't really given much other choice now was he? When all his other ideas were scoffed at or ignored or turned/voted down...there are only so many ways to pay for a multi billion dollar infrastructure improvement.

being left with no other option...how else would you have suggested he pay for it?

What ideas did he ever put forward that were actually feasible to pay for the subway? He waved his hands around and said the private sector would pay for it. But he never came forward with any proof of this - even after a year of talking about it. The "best" option was the Chong report that suggested a bunch of options (increased taxes, development charges on businesses along the route, surcharges on condo sales of up to $2000/unit) which STILL came up hundreds of millions short of the expected total cost. AND city staff deemed it very risky and insufficient to support the subway option.

So..... how do you believe that his non-tax-increase ideas were credible enough that the tax-increase option was forced on him? In reality, the tax-increase option was ALWAYS the ONLY viable option. Saying otherwise was partially just a way for him to say the increase was forced on him by those tax-and-spend leftist commie council pinkos.

[Aitch]

Ford didnt raise the tax. It was done after he was stripped of powers. He also voted against the 2.something increase. He wanted a 1. something.

He could have had all of his powers still in place. The vote would have been the same result. He has 1 vote on council.

Funny, he is still invited to all the budgetary meetings. Earlier this week the meetings started at 7:30am. He didn't attend, and only showed up at the office at 2pm and then left at 4:30pm.

[CloudPump]

Fords plan for the subway was voted down but karen stint and the bored. Then about a month later they said "were going to build subways instead"
That was a loss for ford that ended with the transit outcome he wanted

Ford's plan for the subway didn't fund it. At all. It was finaced through the "private sector"

Could you imagine walking into Mazda and saying you want to drive out of there with a brand new 3 and that they will get their money from the "private sector"?

Who is this magical entity that is just going to pay for subways?

-Geoff

[peterm15]

Stints plan doesn't fund it either. Whats the difference. Actually she wasted more time and money on all these "plans" that probably could have paid for a 1/2 a km or so.

Im not defending fords private life or his actions. I do honestly think once it was proven he should have stepped down. All im saying is when you take out that factor he is the lesser of all evils IMO.

Fords ideas, although sometimes far fetched, probably could have worked IF the meetings werent treated like a kindergarten class.

The way politicians are treated and treat their jobs is a joke on all levels. Show up to your job 60% of the time and see how long you keep it.

I dont know how, but there has to be a better way of doing things. Brain storming rather then kicking and screaming like kids would probably be a good start.

[Aitch]

Stints plan doesn't fund it either. Whats the difference. Actually she wasted more time and money on all these "plans" that probably could have paid for a 1/2 a km or so.

Im not defending fords private life or his actions. I do honestly think once it was proven he should have stepped down. All im saying is when you take out that factor he is the lesser of all evils IMO.

Fords ideas, although sometimes far fetched, probably could have worked IF the meetings werent treated like a kindergarten class.

The way politicians are treated and treat their jobs is a joke on all levels. Show up to your job 60% of the time and see how long you keep it.

I dont know how, but there has to be a better way of doing things. Brain storming rather then kicking and screaming like kids would probably be a good start.

This is stuff I can agree with. Hell I don't agree with the subway plan at all. It's more expensive and less practical for the area. The fact that council went back and voted for it after the province suddenly decided they would increase funding for it (but not cover the complete cost) was ridiculous. And a lot of council meetings make me want to laugh and cry at the same time.

[Canadianbacon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZV15UO0FdQE

ROB FORD DANCEHALL REMIXXX 2014!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Aitch]

Finally.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/rob-ford-takes-leave-as-new-drug-video-emerges/article18354671/

[Kiewan]

^^^ +1000000 tis a good day

[Lmmorden]

Yep... About time for season two of that reality show...

[Thrizzl3]

booked

[r4mi5awi]

The mayoral race just got interesting!

[Kiyomi]

ford has a chance now... hes gonna come back for sure.
it said he didnt withdraw from the ballot.

[Aitch]

ford has a chance now... hes gonna come back for sure.
it said he didnt withdraw from the ballot.

It's true. I always said his best bet was actually rehab before the election. He would have been better off doing it earlier obviously.

[Thrizzl3]

Media Reporters already at his house before he gets home....really? Oh well he's gone to chicago now should he even run for mayor again? lol

[SirWanker]

I couldn't care less about Rob Ford's well-being or whether he gets better.
He's never shown any real sympathy for anyone else, and the entire extent of what passes for his political vision is the elimination of everything our society does to aid others who are suffering.

He claims to be part of the working class yet:

Bicycle = elite
Private plane = normal guy

Wine = elite
Crack = normal guy

[m_bisson]

Ford is an acronym. Found on road dead. It's usually used to poke fun at the car company, but in this case....

or have i gone too far? :D

[Lmmorden]

Ford is an acronym. Found on road dead. It's usually used to poke fun at the car company, but in this case....

or have i gone too far? :D

Regular Opiate Binger Found On Road Dead... Ok now it's gone too far

[CloudPump]

RoFo was denied entry into the states... I guess rehab in Chicago is a no-go.

-Geoff

[jaimie08mazda3]

Now its looking like he's about 10 mins from my place. He will fit right in.

[Fobio]

Ford is an acronym. Found on road dead. It's usually used to poke fun at the car company, but in this case....

or have i gone too far? :D

Fix Or Repair Daily

heard enough of it when I had a SVT Contour...

[SirWanker]

Sooooo I wonder how his rehab stint is going? Apparently it is party central......well, not quite since his car had been impounded (http://www.citynews.ca/2014/05/21/exclusive-rob-fords-escalade-impounded-in-bracebridge-police-source/)

heh...bright woman......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-K4-mDyiYA

[Default User]

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/02/banuse4y.jpg

[m_bisson]

Lmao!

[SirWanker]

Heh....that could pass for his older sister

[jab]

This is guna be an interesting election coming up now that nikki benz has stated she is trying to run for mayor of toronto lol. So who would you rather vote in: option 1) drug addict option 2) pornstar

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/porn-star-nikki-benz-to-run-against-rob-ford-in-toronto-mayoral-elections-9459041.html

[Aitch]

This is guna be an interesting election coming up now that nikki benz has stated she is trying to run for mayor of toronto lol. So who would you rather vote in: option 1) drug addict option 2) pornstar

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/porn-star-nikki-benz-to-run-against-rob-ford-in-toronto-mayoral-elections-9459041.html

Or... any of the legitimate candidates.

Benz will get about 500 votes, if she actually gets registered.

[TRECLA]

i caught most of the debate last night... curious tho, who are you voting for Toronto's next mayor?
i'm undecided at the moment

[S.F.W.]

i caught most of the debate last night... curious tho, who are you voting for Toronto's next mayor?
i'm undecided at the moment
Voting Tory. Don't trust Doug Ford anymore than Rob (likely less), and I don't think Olivia Chow has any idea how to run the city.

[asyed]

Voting Tory. Don't trust Doug Ford anymore than Rob (likely less), and I don't think Olivia Chow has any idea how to run the city.

+1 on oliva chow...

Every time I see her on TV it looks like she has no idea what she is talking about.

[Pacman]

ABC (anyone but chow)

I was going to vote for Socknaki, but he pulled out :(

[fruitloops]

I'm thinking chow because her platform is solid.

[jay93]

It's better late than never to post this. Rob may have done some really stupid crap that he was caught on. But city council let could not give him a break because I feel they never liked him. If you're a news junkie you'll know that the current davenport councillor Ana bailao was stopped by police and blew over the legal b.a.l. Rob Ford stuck up for her all though people told her to resign. Then when this rob stuff broke up she turned around and saying he should step down. Anyhoo council never liked him

[jay93]

Ooooo I no longer live in toronto so I guess my vote doesn't apply. But if I could I vote ford. Why.... if he could get the approval for more subways that could clear up a lot of traffic!! as maybe in amount of busses on the road. I think he's the same as his brother in the sense of no throwing money here and there.

I think both tory and Chow lrt smart track surface rail w.e it's called will actually create a lot more traffic with the construction of it and then after its operations plus john says it will be done in 7 years. I wonder how far deep in the hole the city will be in 7 years. And Chow to me is like a chicken with the head cut off. She talks so much but I don't believe in it

[TRECLA]

im either gonna vote ford or tory, i like fords subway plan rather than more buses. but if they can extend the go train lines some how, id be happy with that too.
its gonna be interesting nevertheless

[asyed]

I'd also vote ford if I had the option. Everyone keeps bringing up rob fords personal past and doesn't see the bigger picture that their political and social lives are different. I feel a lot of people won't vote for his brother too for the same reason. Its unfair to judge a politician based on their previous mistakes






Also am I the only one who loled at that one guy who made the immigrant comment at that one debate that really pissed chow off... Yes it was uncalled for but her overreaction to such trolls is priceless.

[Jenuine]

I'm voting Ford. Chow is completely clueless and Tory would ruin the city.

[Kiewan]

I'm undecided. I may vote Tory/ chow because their transit plans may ACTUALLY happen sooner. Subways take a LONG time to built: example: York university/ Vaughan extension. I was supposed to be able to use it for a few years. Oops, looks like I graduated too early.
Transit has been neglected and talked about for too long.
Example: I bought a car

[TRECLA]

I'm undecided. I may vote Tory/ chow because their transit plans may ACTUALLY happen sooner. Subways take a LONG time to built: example: York university/ Vaughan extension. I was supposed to be able to use it for a few years. Oops, looks like I graduated too early.
Transit has been neglected and talked about for too long.
Example: I bought a car

yup 10 yr plan apparently. shit thats long.

[Mr Wilson]

Can never understand why the candidates try to develop a transit plan in any way shape or form. You have professionals with a mandate to provide and develop ways of moving people both municipally and provincially. Proper planning must be done as well as examining stops, expropriation, average speed, population served, priority neighbourhoods served, time saved/day/year, anticipated capital/operating cost versus revenue, etc.

There are formal Plans in place, why can't these candidates simply support these existing plans....why re-invent the wheel.

[Aitch]

So much facepalm.


It's better late than never to post this. Rob may have done some really stupid crap that he was caught on. But city council let could not give him a break because I feel they never liked him. If you're a news junkie you'll know that the current davenport councillor Ana bailao was stopped by police and blew over the legal b.a.l. Rob Ford stuck up for her all though people told her to resign. Then when this rob stuff broke up she turned around and saying he should step down. Anyhoo council never liked him

During Ford's inauguration, he invited Don Cherry to speak, who outright insulted most of council. Talk about setting the tone. Ford never intended (or knew how) to build consensus. Rather he thought that shouting and trying to shame people into following his plans would work (without providing grounded reasons supporting his plans).


Ooooo I no longer live in toronto so I guess my vote doesn't apply. But if I could I vote ford. Why.... if he could get the approval for more subways that could clear up a lot of traffic!! as maybe in amount of busses on the road. I think he's the same as his brother in the sense of no throwing money here and there.


The one thing Ford touts as an accomplishment is an approval for the Scarborough subway, which actually has 2 less stops than the planned LRT it would replace, which also wouldn't have taken up any road space. Most of the other LRTs planned are for streets where there is space to keep the existing number of lanes AND have the trains. Anyway, see Mr Wilson's post about mayoral planning of transit.


im either gonna vote ford or tory, i like fords subway plan rather than more buses. but if they can extend the go train lines some how, id be happy with that too.
its gonna be interesting nevertheless

Don't vote in this election based on transit plans. The mayor has one vote out of 45 on council. Again, see Mr Wilson's post about transit planning.


I'd also vote ford if I had the option. Everyone keeps bringing up rob fords personal past and doesn't see the bigger picture that their political and social lives are different. I feel a lot of people won't vote for his brother too for the same reason. Its unfair to judge a politician based on their previous mistakes.

Good thing he's not in the election anymore. Seriously, why is it only in politics people will forgive someone for such actions? If your CEO was hanging around the office all weekend, drunk and/or high, breaching security proticols, and generally making a fool of your company, would you still vote for him to keep his job? Assume you own stock in the theoretical company or are compensated based on it's performance. You'd vote him in again just because your pay didn't get deducted an extra 0.5% and he got you a shuttle bus to the closest subway stop?


I'm voting Ford. Chow is completely clueless and Tory would ruin the city.

Everyone's entitled to their opinion. Mine is that I can't see how Doug Ford, the guy best known for literally bullying other people, with a track record of poor planning (both as a councilor and at Deco Label&Tags, read the most recent story at the Globe and Mail) could conceivably be a better mayor than Tory or Chow. I'd put good money that he would definitely be a worse mayor.


I'm undecided. I may vote Tory/ chow because their transit plans may ACTUALLY happen sooner. Subways take a LONG time to built: example: York university/ Vaughan extension. I was supposed to be able to use it for a few years. Oops, looks like I graduated too early.
Transit has been neglected and talked about for too long.

Transit planning is a joke in this city because every single politician believes they have a better plan than everyone else, and spends too much time trying to make it happen instead of working with everyone else. We've had council gridlock for as long as actual gridlock. Pick a plan, stick to it and get it built. That's the major problem.

Again, don't vote in this election based just on transit. There's a snowball's chance in hell that even 20% of each candidate's transit plans get off the ground.

[Jenuine]

Let's just all agree to disagree. No matter what we read in the news or what we say here, we're still going to have different opinions of each candidate.

[Fobio]

Let's just all agree to disagree. No matter what we read in the news or what we say here, we're still going to have different opinions of each candidate.

That's why polite ppl don't talk politics and religion at the dinner table.

Opinions don't change facts. And if ppl want to discuss politics, they have to stick with policy facts, historical voting patterns, council make-up, private sector support, etc.

It's unfortunate, because to make an informed decision, one must be informed. In absence of these information, ppl resort to their personal opinions, which is the source of political debate and drama.

Ideally, each voter in a democracy is well-informed of the policies and can objectively select a candidate based on what's good for themselves and their city. Unfortunately, ppl tend to vote according to feelings...

As such, I save my opinions for myself. But to every voter, I'd ask...what kind of leader would you be proud to tell your kids about, as an example of your city and yourself?

[SirWanker]

I'm voting Ford. Chow is completely clueless and Tory would ruin the city.

Both Fords are liars and more clueless than the other two candidates.

[Jenuine]

Both Fords are liars and more clueless than the other two candidates.
All politicians are liars lol

[SirWanker]

All politicians are liars lol

with both Fords setting new standards to that trait.
So why are you supporting Ford and provide specific reasons.

[Jenuine]

with both Fords setting new standards to that trait.
So why are you supporting Ford and provide specific reasons.
I have my reasons for voting Ford, I joined in on a never ending discussion/ debate at the beginning of this thread and don't want to get into another pointless discussion. No one has to justify their choices to anybody. Just vote who you think will be the best mayor and I will vote for who I think will be the best mayor.

[fruitloops]

I do allot of crack and sell some on the side so I am voting for Doug Ford so he doesn't wreck our jobs. Because, realistically, who would want to ruin their own dad's life? Not Doug. Plus transit gets crack heads to my place to buy more crack. Did I mention crack?

[Pacman]

Both Fords are liars and more clueless than the other two candidates.
From all the debates I see, Chow unimpressed me each time

[SirWanker]

I have my reasons for voting Ford, I joined in on a never ending discussion/ debate at the beginning of this thread and don't want to get into another pointless discussion. No one has to justify their choices to anybody. Just vote who you think will be the best mayor and I will vote for who I think will be the best mayor.

Doug Ford had done nothing for his ward and had been nothing but a parasite, wait a gravy afficando. You did indicate earlier on your support for ROB Ford based on his trivial and questionable accomplishments. Doug has done.....nothing beneficial for Toronto. If this is your basis for trusting Doug Ford as mayor, so be it.

[SirWanker]

From all the debates I see, Chow unimpressed me each time

same can be said for both Fords

[Pacman]

same can be said for both Fords
Of course. And that is why you will vote for who you want, and I will vote for who I want.

[m_bisson]

Lmao!


I had some very factual stuff written here. Then I remembered discussions we've had in the past where people failed to differentiate fact from belief/opinion.

I'm glad I don't live in Toronto. I hope you folk get what you vote for ;)

[loki]

This thread has made it a long way without getting locked...I'm impressed

It has even outlasted the "circumcision" thread

[Default User]

I have to say that I would be VERY surprised if another Ford gets elected mayor.

People are too ignorant to believe that Doug is not Rob - and too smart to know that Doug will be simply be a Robs puppet.

Both Chow and Tory seem to just play to what the crowd wants to hear "Create jobs" "freeze tax hikes" "better transit systems"

I haven't watched any debates - because it's basically watching nominees for an Oscar award.

Has anybody decided how they are going to improve the infrastructure in Toronto? Who's going to bite the bullet and say that $XX-billion of tax money is going to go to improving Toronto roads, and repairing the Gardiner and widening the freeways?

Instead of having "patch up jobs" at the same intersections every two years because the govt doesn't want to spend their budget on fixing it right the first time?

[Jenuine]

That's why polite ppl don't talk politics and religion at the dinner table.

Opinions don't change facts. And if ppl want to discuss politics, they have to stick with policy facts, historical voting patterns, council make-up, private sector support, etc.

It's unfortunate, because to make an informed decision, one must be informed. In absence of these information, ppl resort to their personal opinions, which is the source of political debate and drama.

Ideally, each voter in a democracy is well-informed of the policies and can objectively select a candidate based on what's good for themselves and their city. Unfortunately, ppl tend to vote according to feelings...

As such, I save my opinions for myself. But to every voter, I'd ask...what kind of leader would you be proud to tell your kids about, as an example of your city and yourself?

I agree that to make an informed decision you have to be informed, and I think most people have somewhat done some research.

Every candidate in this election has negative aspects to their policies and plans. Unfortunately we haven't exactly been given the best choices so we have to do the best with what we have and vote for who we think would benefit us the most as taxpayers, and that's where we diverge which is perfectly fine.

To be honest, there's not one leader/politician that I would be proud to tell my kids about haha. They're all liars. I'll teach my kids to never look up to a politician as a role model.

[Kiewan]

There are formal Plans in place, why can't these candidates simply support these existing plans....why re-invent the wheel.

Been thinking about this a bit more. Are any of the front-running candidates closer than others to streamlining any existing plans or are they all dead set at starting their own convoluted plans first.
You can see where I become frustrated as a commuter/voter.

[loki]

I agree that to make an informed decision you have to be informed, and I think most people have somewhat done some research.

Every candidate in this election has negative aspects to their policies and plans. Unfortunately we haven't exactly been given the best choices so we have to do the best with what we have and vote for who we think would benefit us the most as taxpayers, and that's where we diverge which is perfectly fine.

To be honest, there's not one leader/politician that I would be proud to tell my kids about haha. They're all liars. I'll teach my kids to never look up to a politician as a role model.
They're not all liars

but you do what you gotta do

[loki]

I don't have an agenda, I'm staying completely neutral in this thread

[S.F.W.]

Maybe CloudPump will chime in.
I wonder if I can harass old school member Cardinal Fang to chime on as well.

[TRECLA]

This thread has made it a long way without getting locked...I'm impressed

It has even outlasted the "circumcision" thread

thats the internet. some ppl are more opinion based with a keyboard.

[loki]

thats the internet. some ppl are more opinion based with a keyboard.
Keyboard Warriors

But you wouldn't even know they were breathing when you see them out in public

[Mr Wilson]

Been thinking about this a bit more. Are any of the front-running candidates closer than others to streamlining any existing plans or are they all dead set at starting their own convoluted plans first.
You can see where I become frustrated as a commuter/voter.

The existing plans are updated at intervals specific to the plans themselves (anywhere from 5 - 20 years is the norm), though smaller updates do happen if large shifts in data occur (data collected daily/weekly/monthly/yearly). It's these 'convoluted plans' as you put it that end up leading to debate and finally a stalemate in anything being passed. The LRT expansion in several corridors was approved with the money ready to go from Municipal/Provincial/Federal funds, and then the Mayor brought it back for discussion and now we have nothing happening. This cycle has been happening for 25 years-or-so now.

[midnightfxgt]

No matter what forum I am on, it always seems that the most informed posters, who are able to debate their position, are against the Fords.

Then there are people saying "All Politicians are liars", "His social life is separate" etc.... without backing up what they say.


I fear Toronto has more of the second kind of people.

[Kiewan]

The existing plans are updated at intervals specific to the plans themselves (anywhere from 5 - 20 years is the norm), though smaller updates do happen if large shifts in data occur (data collected daily/weekly/monthly/yearly). It's these 'convoluted plans' as you put it that end up leading to debate and finally a stalemate in anything being passed. The LRT expansion in several corridors was approved with the money ready to go from Municipal/Provincial/Federal funds, and then the Mayor brought it back for discussion and now we have nothing happening. This cycle has been happening for 25 years-or-so now.

We need to have a qualified appointed transit Cesar.

[Jenuine]

No matter what forum I am on, it always seems that the most informed posters, who are able to debate their position, are against the Fords.

Then there are people saying "All Politicians are liars", "His social life is separate" etc.... without backing up what they say.


I fear Toronto has more of the second kind of people.

The word "informed" when talking about politics doesn't really mean much. If you aren't a Ford supporter, you're going to say that anyone who is a Ford supporter isn't informed. Just like a Chow supporter is going to say that anyone who isn't voting Chow is not informed, etc.

We're all bias to some degree.

Some people do believe that Ford's social life is separate and that's their prerogative. And some people believe that his social life isn't separate. I don't think either belief is wrong.

But that's the beauty of democracy, everyone is entitled to vote however they want without having to back up their decision. I don't judge or chastise anyone for voting for a different candidate than me lol because that's childish. Nor do I care to ask why. It's just annoying that every election, people get so fired up when they hear that someone isn't voting for the same candidate and start attacking.

Yes, I'm voting Ford but that doesn't mean I'm not "informed" nor does it mean that I can't back it up, I learned not to bother with debates about who people are voting for and why because it never ends well, we will all be in the same position we were in before the debate.

When I say all politicians are liars, I don't say that to justify my support for Ford lol. I just mean in general. In this election, we've been given very shitty candidates and I don't believe that Ford, Tory or Chow will keep their campaign promises. They're all telling us what we want to hear. You do the best with what you're given, that's what I'm doing.

[loki]

The word "informed" when talking about politics doesn't really mean much. If you aren't a Ford supporter, you're going to say that anyone who is a Ford supporter isn't informed. Just like a Chow supporter is going to say that anyone who isn't voting Chow is not informed, etc.

We're all bias to some degree.

Some people do believe that Ford's social life is separate and that's their prerogative. And some people believe that his social life isn't separate. I don't think either belief is wrong.

But that's the beauty of democracy, everyone is entitled to vote however they want without having to back up their decision. I don't judge or chastise anyone for voting for a different candidate than me lol because that's childish. Nor do I care to ask why. It's just annoying that every election, people get so fired up when they hear that someone isn't voting for the same candidate and start attacking.

Yes, I'm voting Ford but that doesn't mean I'm not "informed" nor does it mean that I can't back it up, I learned not to bother with debates about who people are voting for and why because it never ends well, we will all be in the same position we were in before the debate.

When I say all politicians are liars, I don't say that to justify my support for Ford lol. I just mean in general. In this election, we've been given very shitty candidates and I don't believe that Ford, Tory or Chow will keep their campaign promises. They're all telling us what we want to hear. You do the best with what you're given, that's what I'm doing.

now that you've had your say, again, Jenuine see if you can resist further posting in this thread

Like you said you don't need to "back-up" anything

[Jenuine]

now that you've had your say, again, Jenuine see if you can resist further posting in this thread

Like you said you don't need to "back-up" anything

But other people who explicitly stated that they're saving their opinions to themselves and choosing not to get into a debate, and staying neutral can post.

Lol K.

[loki]

But other people who explicitly stated that they're saving their opinions to themselves and choosing not to get into a debate, and staying neutral can post.

Lol K.

I'm not saying you can't post. I'm saying try not to post

[Jenuine]

I'm not saying you can't post. I'm saying try not to post

I said I wasn't going to grill people about who they're voting for and ask them to justify it. Completely different than talking about democracy, candidates and being informed.

[midnightfxgt]

Some people do believe that Ford's social life is separate and that's their prerogative. And some people believe that his social life isn't separate. I don't think either belief is wrong.

There lies part of the problem. Anyone who has read a newspaper or watched the news KNOWS they are not separate. He has been drunk on the job. For someone so well informed, I am surprised you dont see them overlapping.

[Jenuine]

There lies part of the problem. Anyone who has read a newspaper or watched the news KNOWS they are not separate. He has been drunk on the job. For someone so well informed, I am surprised you dont see them overlapping.

I'm not saying him being drunk on the job isn't an overlap of his personal/professional life - it is. I don't believe any Mayor should be drinking while working.

We can all agree that Rob Ford has major issues, I don't think anyone will argue that.

When it comes to the personal vs professional life being separate or not, some argue that they don't care about the overlap, they only care about his policies/plans and their tax dollars. And then others feel strongly about the overlap.

Although I don't condone drinking on the job, I don't think either belief is wrong. I'm in the middle of both arguments because I see both sides so it isn't a deal breaker for me personally.

[loki]

Although I don't condone drinking on the job, I don't think either belief is wrong. I'm in the middle of both arguments because I see both sides so it isn't a deal breaker for me personally.

I'm not quite following this part. Can you elloborate further?

[Jenuine]

I'm not quite following this part. Can you elloborate further?

On one hand, I understand not wanting a Mayor who drinks a lot in his personal life and allows it to spill over to his professional life, as he represents the city. But on the other hand, I get why some people don't care about his drinking and only care about whether their tax dollars are being wasted on inefficiencies.

[m_bisson]

Although I don't condone drinking on the job, I don't think either belief is wrong. I'm in the middle of both arguments because I see both sides so it isn't a deal breaker for me personally.

There are some people who need to be held to a higher standard than the rest of us. People that we give SO MUCH power to, need to behave responsibly not just on the job, but in all aspects of their life. You don't want your kids kindergarten teacher stripping at a bar on the weekend, right? Don't want the cops to be shooting up cocaine when they're not on duty, right?

[Mitchell3]

There are some people who need to be held to a higher standard than the rest of us. People that we give SO MUCH power to, need to behave responsibly not just on the job, but in all aspects of their life. You don't want your kids kindergarten teacher stripping at a bar on the weekend, right? Don't want the cops to be shooting up cocaine when they're not on duty, right?

I agree with this. There are too many bad role models with celebs in todays world. We don't need mayors doing this as well.

[Fobio]

I feel what the forums does, when we reply to one person specifically, is it makes it feel like one person is being targeted and ganged up on. Instead of furthering that impression, I will stay vague and high-level...

In the last provincial election, you can "abstain" by returning a empty ballot. This is essentially throwing your vote away, as supporters of other candidates will tell you that you "lost a vote to stop xxxx from getting into office." But if one truly feels that none of the DOZENS of candidates on the official ballot deserves their vote, because they are all politicians, then vote that way. This is an existential vote...and if one really feels that no one is good enough to represent themselves and their city, then one must be truthful to oneself and vote no one.

The "abstain" votes do get counted in the provincial election, and it's made public. So even though you may not have voted for anyone, it'll demonstrate that the candidates were not chosen by a certain percentage of voters, and it speaks volumes about the relationship and trust between the voter and the candidate.

Voting for the least of all evils, even just to your own perspective, is not an effective way to actually get anything done.

[SirWanker]

On one hand, I understand not wanting a Mayor who drinks a lot in his personal life and allows it to spill over to his professional life, as he represents the city. But on the other hand, I get why some people don't care about his drinking and only care about whether their tax dollars are being wasted on inefficiencies.

seeing that Rob has been working on average only 2-3 hours a day, he sure has not been an efficent use of taxpayer funds.

[CloudPump]

The one thing the Ford administration has taught me is the awesome power of propaganda.

I've always been fascinated with the rise to power of Adolf Hitler and his overwhelming popularity in Germany throughout the 30's and 40's. I always found it hard to believe that a man who was committing such atrocities against people he deemed to be (by him) less than worthy, could maintain such a cult of personality. Propaganda had always been used to explain away how Hitler could demonize a race of people and still own the hearts of most Germans. I don't think I was ever able to fully wrap my mind around how powerful the influence of (state controlled) media could be.

But now we have Ford(s). And we have Ford propaganda. And I see how blinding it is on the Toronto voter.

I hear people saying how Ford has reduced spending and lowered budgets and cut taxes. Yet the reality is that property taxes have gone up every year (but one, and never have they been cut) in the Ford administration. Spending is still wasted. The fully paid for Scarborough LRT was cancelled, incurring millions of taxpayer dollars in cancellation penalties and a new (unfunded) subway plan put into place. Where will the money come from to pay for this subway? Our taxpayer dollars again. Every Ford budget has been higher than any budget under David Miller. Yet the mantra of "respect for taxpayers" continues on. The Ford(s) have struck on a (sad) flaw in humanity. If you repeat a lie enough, the masses will repeat it as truth.

When the city of Toronto wastes money during the Ford administration it's never Rob or Doug's fault, it's that reckless council. If Rob can't stop this terrible waste of taxpayer funds as Mayor, what is there to make us believe Doug could? Rob & Doug act as if the rest of the city council can be made to conform to their will by rude speech and intimidation. Have they forgotten what the rest of us learned in our youth? That you get more flies with honey than with vinegar? Should we not be voting in a new Mayor who will work WITH council rather than shout at them? Should we not be voting in a new Mayor that represents ALL of Toronto, not just the heterosexual Caucasian ones?

I'm surprised that Doug has any support at all. John Tory is (politically) Doug, just without the anger and vitriol. I can only assume that people lean towards Doug, not for the politics, but for the anger. He shouts out the things that some people want to hear. I guess I never realized how angry many people are. But then again, I never understood why people adored Hitler.

(Please do not misconstrue my mentioning of Hitler and Nazi Germany as any attempt to paint a Ford with this brush. The point was propaganda, not Fascism.)

-Geoff

[m_bisson]

LOL.
New smear campaign: "Do you want the Nazi party running your city? Don't vote Ford for mayor."