Long term planning: Next vehicle after the Mazda 3...

[bhrm]

Planning to move up and grow up from the Mazda 3, after 170,000km and 7 years....

Looking at:

Mazda 6
Benz CLA
VW GTi
VW Golf Wagon (love wagons)
VW Jetta TDi Hybrid

Must be automagic tranny (good bye manual...)

Thoughts?

Now the Mazda 6 makes sense on so many fronts, but I don't want another Mazda.

[coriolis]

Ford Fusion, the new WRX will have CVT.

[bhrm]

Ford Fusion, the new WRX will have CVT.

CVT = barf

hate it hate it hate it

tried it on a mitsubishi lancer and the outlander (?). barf

however it's alright on an electric car like the leaf and mitsubishi one

[cwp_sedan]

Moved to "Other Cars Section" since according to your list there are no Mazda 3s on it.

[thanu31]

BMW 228i...or if budget permits.. M235i :hawt

[DaveIrwin24]

Man those CLA look real nice!!

[Arbitrageur]

Cadillac CTS Coupe

http://img2.netcarshow.com/Cadillac-CTS_Coupe_2011_800x600_wallpaper_01.jpg

Too many BMWs/Audis/Benz on the road, imo.

[Dave_The_BMXER]

Curious why no more manual?

[doughboyr6]

same boat.

i've already traded my MT mazda3 in for an auto CX-5 last year. We are now expecting, so I'd like for her to move into my CX-5 and trade her Yaris in for something for myself, but still driveable for her and fit our family needs.

After the comforts of the CX-5 here are now expectations now.

MUST HAVES

rearview camera
rear window/shield wiper
hatchback for the space and ease of access to the space.
blindspot monitoring

i'm thinking the new 3 hatch. can't think of too many other comparables.

A3 too expensive for us. Benz B is a bit more affordable, but its now more a van. Nothing from BMW fits.

I guess there's Kia Forte hatch and elantra hatch. But not a fan of those.

[Kiewan]

Mazda 6 only because I have driven one and found it pleasant. I don't really like CVT transmissions after driving a lancer that had one. You really have to get used to them if CVTs make it into any of your choices.

[p-o-g-i]

Planning to move up and grow up from the Mazda 3, after 170,000km and 7 years....

Looking at:

Mazda 6
Benz CLA
VW GTi
VW Golf Wagon (love wagons)
VW Jetta TDi Hybrid

Must be automagic tranny (good bye manual...)

Thoughts?

Now the Mazda 6 makes sense on so many fronts, but I don't want another Mazda.


I was in the same boat.
We had to Mazda3's (07 sedan and 10 hatch). Then we traded in the 10 hatch for a 12 Mazda5.
When I made the decision to move on from the 07 sedan, I took a really long look at the new Mazda6.
But in the end, I couldn't justify a 4th Mazda in a 6 year span. I went with a G37 Coupe, but literally had it for maybe 9 months. Shortly after the Infiniti purchase, we found out we had a 2nd child on the way; picked up a 328i sedan.
With that said, once the Mazda5 payments are done I would like to get a Sienna SE (but I also hate car payments :p )

[SomeGuy]

MUST HAVES

rearview camera
rear window/shield wiper
hatchback for the space and ease of access to the space.
blindspot monitoring




Other than being a hatchback, why any of those? They're just crutches for people who can't use their eyes.

[doughboyr6]

Other than being a hatchback, why any of those? They're just crutches for people who can't use their eyes.

absolutely true, but its been working well and fine for me so i want to have it for my next car too.

[sudz]

The Lancer CVT was HORRIBLE. Try the new Accord Sport with CVT - I personally feel, out of all the CVT's, that Honda's got the best one - Its a bit more "sporty" and has much less "rubber band" effect.

[Zotaga]

I'm looking at purchasing a Subaru BRZ in the summer and keep my M3 as my winter beater.

The BRZ is just too good to pass up.

[RTEnthusiast]

Planning to move up and grow up from the Mazda 3, after 170,000km and 7 years....

Looking at:

Mazda 6
Benz CLA
VW GTi
VW Golf Wagon (love wagons)
VW Jetta TDi Hybrid

Must be automagic tranny (good bye manual...)

Thoughts?

Now the Mazda 6 makes sense on so many fronts, but I don't want another Mazda.


FYI, there is no Jetta TDI Hybrid. The "Turbo Hybrid" is a gasoline-powered turbocharged motor... not a diesel hybrid. ;)

Mazda6 is great. The CLA is nice and all, but it just doesn't scream "Benz" to me like their other models do.

How about a new WRX? They are coming with the Lineartronic automatic transmission... and it's not a horrendous box like the Lancer's...

[bhrm]

Curious why no more manual?

i'm a grown up now....and wifey won't do manual. She only feels comfortable driving it....if there's no other cars within a 10km radius and no hills. And nothing to hit.

I test drove the CX-5 GT AWD and....driving it makes me feel old LOL. It's not a terrible CUV but I think I need time to let it sink into me....that I'm growing up....it's peppy enough and the tranny is pretty sweet. AWD is something I won't need, hopefully the FWD feels quicker.

[JonsMazda]

Ford Focus ST?

[bhrm]

Man those CLA look real nice!!

I saw an A series while in hong kong, and omg hatchsexyness. Not sure if it was the AMG one....

http://www.mercedes-amg.com/webspecial/a45/index_eng.php

[jab]

depending on the amount of people you are accommodating for and the type of driving you are doing, if you want something automatic that will still make you feel young and have power why not look at the genesis coupe. Just basing it off my personal experience. It is a great car, and right around the price range you listed with those others. The only downside to it like i mentioned was it isnt really built for more then 2 two people although you can fit four in comfortably because of the two doors + rwd not the greatest for winters if you are not use to it. Other then that couldnt complain about anything else...just throwing it our there

[Mty Mous]

Another great option, but only available in the States which means you need to figure out the financing on your own ... Acura TSX Wagon with Tech Package!
I think when the other car finally dies (bloody Mazda Protégé, runs a like a tank still), I will get my hands on a 2yr old TSX wagon.

[rajin929]

TSX wagon is sick. Wish more wagons were available!
(also wish honda honored the warranty in canada, and the dollar was back at par lol)

[Z00mer]

In 2017 Tesla is releasing the Gen 3 car. It will be $35,000, no maintenence (oil changes, filters, etc) , no transmission, spacey (trunk under hood and in back). No gas which could surge even higher over the years and have around 400hp stock. I'm waiting for it because the model S is too rich for my taste (75,000 starting price).

Imagine spending $300 a year on electricity instead of 3-5g a year in gas and more for mechanics....modern car engines are more complex then need be.

It all depends on how long you can wait.

[coriolis]

In 2017 Tesla is releasing the Gen 3 car. It will be $35,000, no maintenence (oil changes, filters, etc) , no transmission, spacey (trunk under hood and in back). No gas which could surge even higher over the years and have around 400hp stock. I'm waiting for it because the model S is too rich for my taste (75,000 starting price).

Imagine spending $300 a year on electricity instead of 3-5g a year in gas and more for mechanics....modern car engines are more complex then need be.

It all depends on how long you can wait.

It's still vaporware for now. I wouldn't be too sold on whats been shown on paper just yet. 2017 is years away, and while I don't doubt Tesla won't have a product by then, but the whole industry itself will be changing as well.


Don't forget that an EV is still an EV, limited range, which is a big concern when its really cold (like today) and if you're driving on the highway.


Also, $300 /year on electricity, well thats a bit of a stretch. Let's assume right now a single kWh is $0.10. Let's also assume that the Gen3 will have a 100 kWh battery (current Model S has 65/85 kWh battery options), thats $10 per charge, not counting inflation. I drive a Volt as a DD, it only has a 13-14 kWh battery, and thats about $1.30 per day of electricity, and at best I can get 80 km out of a charge in sunny warm weather. In this weather, I doubt I can even get 25 km.


Of course, Moore's law, 3 years is a long time. Who knows what kind of magic we will have then.

[Wylie]

In 2017 Tesla is releasing the Gen 3 car. It will be $35,000, no maintenence (oil changes, filters, etc) , no transmission, spacey (trunk under hood and in back). No gas which could surge even higher over the years and have around 400hp stock. I'm waiting for it because the model S is too rich for my taste (75,000 starting price).

Imagine spending $300 a year on electricity instead of 3-5g a year in gas and more for mechanics....modern car engines are more complex then need be.

It all depends on how long you can wait.

You're forgetting about the maintenance costs that tesla has, they said they service the whole car which costs $600 (for the model s) and recommend that once a year and twice every other year.
I'm fully with you on the tesla though, adore the model s and would really consider the model e when it comes out in '16/'17, just be aware of those costs. But most people dont think about the regular maintenance fees of gas-engine cars so..
Also I feel like I would want to have the tesla charging in the garage and that might not be an option for some people.

[rajin929]

OP - when you say long term planning, how long you thinking?

Is the replacement to the Mazda just a stop gap to something else? or are you looking to get a lot of use and years out of it?

Assuming you don't have a family yet, but are planning to soon - maybe it might be better to make the jump into a wagon/SUV now?

[bhrm]

Long term meaning sometime by end of this year, or as soon as may/june when we defrost out of this horrid weather. No major rush and will keep an eye out for promos, no one is pregnant but as cars are long term purchases, always planning ahead!

SUV's are out. I thought about it but driving them makes me feel old. Minivan's are definite no.

Going to replace the Mazda, even though it does have a lot of life left in it. Any buyers?? :D


OP - when you say long term planning, how long you thinking?

Is the replacement to the Mazda just a stop gap to something else? or are you looking to get a lot of use and years out of it?

Assuming you don't have a family yet, but are planning to soon - maybe it might be better to make the jump into a wagon/SUV now?

[Jsquared]

I have a CLA45 AMG on pre-order. It arrives March 15th and I am very excited as I am sure others on the board can see I post all the time about it haha.

I am upgrading from a 2010 Mazdaspeed 3 and can confirm its the perfect upgrade. A little more power 355hp / 332ftlb Torque. It's a FWD car in normal conditions, but when the wheel slips or you come on to it hard it becomes and AWD (4matic) car by putting 50% of the power to the rear wheels. My wife is too nervous to drive a manual so having the 7 speed automatic dual clutch is also a great compromise for myself.

I looked at the Mitsubishi Evo and the Subaru's and as great as they are, they felt pretty much the same as the speed 3 so I didn't think the money was worth the upgrade in that direction. Great cars but I do not foresee myself entering any rally races in the future. With the Mercedes, I get the engine upgrade I was looking for, the AWD system when required and the luxury on the inside of the car.

The base price with no options is 49K. I opted for the exhaust upgrade ($450), 19in Black rims ($1000) and Premium Package ($3000)...panoramic moon roof, light package, rear view camera, driver assist package..etc.

All in my total price with taxes and freight blah blah is $61,500 give or take.

They are also offering me 15k on my trade in.

I highly recommend you take a look at the CLA's. You may not require or have interest in the AMG package and if not, you're looking at closer to $35,000 with some options and I believe they are stock with 208hp and 265ft lb torque. They both have an incredible comfortable ride and road noise does not exist.

[r4mi5awi]

Good impression. What color did you end up deciding on?

[Jsquared]

Good impression. What color did you end up deciding on?

This is my exact package. I could not afford the carbon fibre upgrade which included the front splitter, side sills, rear diffuser and interior trim. Silver was no extra charge. Red brake calipers were also no extra charge if you chose them however in the USA you had to pay extra for them.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v481/wookamachine/cla45amg_zps9c516675.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/wookamachine/media/cla45amg_zps9c516675.jpg.html)

[FoXy]

I'm looking at upgrading to a crossover/suv. I need somethng that has a bit of storage space, something that can tow up to 2000lbs, something AWD, and something that isnt terrible on gas.

Looking at: Hyundai Santa Fe, Ford Escape, etc. Not sure what to get. Won't be getting a base model, something with a bigger motor, more balls. I'm undecided. I haven't test driven anything yet.

[Jsquared]

A good friend is in the same position right now. Wants an affordable fully loaded SUV. We have test drove everything out there and both models you named are currently in his top three and I have to agree. They both have a ton of options, run really well and are well priced.

My advice....or rather common sense lol - test drive everything and a few times to really confirm which is best.

[SirWanker]

I'm looking at upgrading to a crossover/suv. I need somethng that has a bit of storage space, something that can tow up to 2000lbs, something AWD, and something that isnt terrible on gas.

Looking at: Hyundai Santa Fe, Ford Escape, etc. Not sure what to get. Won't be getting a base model, something with a bigger motor, more balls. I'm undecided. I haven't test driven anything yet.

Mazda CX-5 pretty much fits your requirements and is a blast to drive.
Wait for the 2015 models as the 2014s have a crappy entertainment system, specifically issues with the iPod/USB interface.

[FoXy]

Unfortunately I dont think I will be waiting. I might be needing the car sooner rather than later.

I thought the cx-5 didnt have any towing capacity and was physically smaller in size, that's why I didnt look at it.

Also, I dont think I want another Mazda. And you can get more for your money in other things like the hyundai

[SirWanker]

I thought the cx-5 didnt have any towing capacity and was physically smaller in size, that's why I didnt look at it.

Fair enough as the Mazda.ca site has no specs listed for the towing capacity yet other sites such as Edmunds (http://www.edmunds.com/mazda/cx-5/2013/features-specs.html) has the capacity listed as 2000lb tow limit. Plus I have been on other CX-5 forums such as mazdas247.com (http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?471-CX-5-Lounge-amp-Welcome-Area)where towing has been discussed.


Also, I dont think I want another Mazda. And you can get more for your money in other things like the hyundai

I was in the same boat last summer and had the list narrowed down to VW Tiguan, Ford Escape & CX-5. The Santa fe was excluded because it was too large for my requirements. Also having driven a rental 2013 Elantra for two weeks did not leave a favourable impression on me for that brand.

Ford Escape - hated the interior layout
VW Tiguan - loved everything about the vehicle except for how it handled
CX-5 - see VW Tiguan except it was a joy to drive.

Good luck on your search.

[ryan2.3]

we're also looking for something larger for our growing family too. Our mazda3s are great for day to day, but with long trips to pittsburgh and toronto, we want something more comfortable for the dog (sometimes dogs) and baby(ies soon?) I really lucked out in that my wife is like me and also says that as long as we have 2 feet we need 3 pedals. We were thinking SUV but it's too high for the aging pups and any SUV's that have a MT aren't that much more room over a wagon or hatch. We're sticking with wagons because if we need to i'd like the ability to throw the dog in the 'trunk' without throwing a dog in a trunk.
We're primarily looking at foresters and volvos. I'm trying to track down a V70R, probably around 2006. My dad has an 850T5 for my little brother and sister, but i don't want to put work into it.

I personally can't justify the prices for new cars as being worth it (still regret getting the 2011 new instead of a used older speed3 or something). I can't see myself ever getting another brand new car. I hate that nowadays if you want a manual, most of the time, unless it's a sporty car, you have to give up literally every available option as they're only offered on base cars.

[SirWanker]

we're also looking for something larger for our growing family too. Our mazda3s are great for day to day, but with long trips to pittsburgh and toronto, we want something more comfortable for the dog (sometimes dogs) and baby(ies soon?) I really lucked out in that my wife is like me and also says that as long as we have 2 feet we need 3 pedals. We were thinking SUV but it's too high for the aging pups and any SUV's that have a MT aren't that much more room over a wagon or hatch. We're sticking with wagons because if we need to i'd like the ability to throw the dog in the 'trunk' without throwing a dog in a trunk.
We're primarily looking at foresters and volvos. I'm trying to track down a V70R, probably around 2006. My dad has an 850T5 for my little brother and sister, but i don't want to put work into it.

I personally can't justify the prices for new cars as being worth it (still regret getting the 2011 new instead of a used older speed3 or something). I can't see myself ever getting another brand new car. I hate that nowadays if you want a manual, most of the time, unless it's a sporty car, you have to give up literally every available option as they're only offered on base cars.

Have you considered a Honda Element (http://4jjo.com/honda-element.html)?
Here's a link for a V70R for sale: http://wwwa.autotrader.ca/a/Volvo/V70/SCARBOROUGH/Ontario/19_7639513_/?showcpo=ShowCPO

[ryan2.3]

We both really like the element. We always wanted one, but now that we're in a place to afford one it doesn't work for us. It's only a 4 seater. Also, with a couple car seats, the dog will always have to be in the back and so trunk space would be come small really fast. Plus i don't think he could easily jump up the tailgate to get in, and if i get the ramps, that's more stuff to haul. The volvo and subarus do five, and with a Volvo, i could always throw in the third row rear facing seat for when kids are a little older. I used to love riding around in the back when i was little. I love how wide they are and the back is long enough that i could partition out a "third row" pet section, then a section for all our stuff.

i saw that V70R for sale. I love it, but the missus wasn't keen on the interior colour :(

[SirWanker]

i saw that V70R for sale. I love it, but the missus wasn't keen on the interior colour :(

Well the 'orange" leather is more like saddle leather in colour. Take the missus to see the vehicle in person and who knows?:devil
I would have bought it except I can't justify switching a 2014 CX-5 with less than 3000KM for a 8 year old V70R with 100K & no warranty.

[Jsquared]

I love that volvo so much I would not care what the interior looks like. I doubt your wife would either once she drives it :D haha

[SirWanker]

Here's a link for a V70R for sale: http://wwwa.autotrader.ca/a/Volvo/V70/SCARBOROUGH/Ontario/19_7639513_/?showcpo=ShowCPO

too late.....someone bought it

[The Wolf]

One of the following:
http://www.mwerks.com/artman/uploads/features/dropped.jpg
http://srs-tec.de/cars/images/product_images/popup_images/106_0.jpg
http://oi43.tinypic.com/70df09.jpg

plus this for winter
http://www.fluidmotorunion.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/forester_fs1.jpg

[ryan2.3]

One of the following:
http://www.mwerks.com/artman/uploads/features/dropped.jpg
http://srs-tec.de/cars/images/product_images/popup_images/106_0.jpg
http://oi43.tinypic.com/70df09.jpg

plus this for winter
http://www.fluidmotorunion.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/forester_fs1.jpg

I'm on my third e30 it's my winter project so I can get it ready for summer. They're so fun

[miako]

This is my exact package. I could not afford the carbon fibre upgrade which included the front splitter, side sills, rear diffuser and interior trim. Silver was no extra charge. Red brake calipers were also no extra charge if you chose them however in the USA you had to pay extra for them.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v481/wookamachine/cla45amg_zps9c516675.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/wookamachine/media/cla45amg_zps9c516675.jpg.html)

If the CLA45 can sit a baby seat in the back facing backwards, I would have picked one up in about 4 months. My wife and I went to the dealership yesterday to visit my friend and fitting a reversed infant car seat is impossible for the CLA45. The car is very nice though, great little merc rocket.

[SirWanker]

I saw an A series while in hong kong, and omg hatchsexyness. Not sure if it was the AMG one....

http://www.mercedes-amg.com/webspecial/a45/index_eng.php

Have you considered the Benz B Series (http://www.mercedes-benz.ca/content/canada/mpc/mpc_canada_website/en/home_mpc/passengercars/home/new_cars/models/b-class/w246.flash.html)?
Would have bought this instead of the CX-5 but could not wait for the trim/options at that time.

[Jsquared]

If the CLA45 can sit a baby seat in the back facing backwards, I would have picked one up in about 4 months. My wife and I went to the dealership yesterday to visit my friend and fitting a reversed infant car seat is impossible for the CLA45. The car is very nice though, great little merc rocket.

I hear ya man! Very small back seat. I am 6'1 and I do not fit back there. The only reason why I shelled out an extra 3000 on the premium package was for the moon roof. Otherwise my hair was touching the ceiling of the car. This is why they are referring to it as a coupe. Also, we're not having children so I don't have to worry about anything fitting back there outside of a backpack once in a while or our cat in a carrier.

[r4BBiT]

Have you considered the Benz B Series (http://www.mercedes-benz.ca/content/canada/mpc/mpc_canada_website/en/home_mpc/passengercars/home/new_cars/models/b-class/w246.flash.html)?
Would have bought this instead of the CX-5 but could not wait for the trim/options at that time.

B-class sucks man!

I had it as loaner one day when we dropped our C-class for service and that thing does not feel like benz at all, just saying.

[miako]

I hear ya man! Very small back seat. I am 6'1 and I do not fit back there. The only reason why I shelled out an extra 3000 on the premium package was for the moon roof. Otherwise my hair was touching the ceiling of the car. This is why they are referring to it as a coupe. Also, we're not having children so I don't have to worry about anything fitting back there outside of a backpack once in a while or our cat in a carrier.

In that case, this will be a great car for you. Lol I'm 6'1 too, I tried to sit in the back my head couldn't fit in straight. Great review on the 45 though, I'm sure you'll enjoy it!

[SirWanker]

This will be sweet Polestar tuned V60
http://www.zercustoms.com/news/images/Volvo/th1/Polestar-Volvo-V60-1.jpg

More info here (http://www.nextpolestar.com/#/gallery)

[Jsquared]

^^^ Beautiful car with a ton of power. Love Volvo....any info on pricing for that?

[rajin929]

damn that looks sick.

[SirWanker]

^^^ Beautiful car with a ton of power. Love Volvo....any info on pricing for that?

No info yet on the Canadian site. This will do quite nicely as an alternative to the BMW M5 Estate.

[m_bisson]

What do you guys think about the Nissan Frontier or Toyota Tacoma?

[FoXy]

Dont know much about the nissan but the tacoma is mediocre. It's their low end truck and you definitely don't get the same ruggedness in the lower model. It's smaller so less versatile and the turning radius is literally atrocious. Be prepared to make 10 point turns lol

[m_bisson]

Well we had 2 tundras at work and I thought those were mediocre lol. We got rid of both at only 120k because they were having too many issues.

I've been leaning towards the Frontier anyway.

[SKyactivmanny]

Unfortunately I dont think I will be waiting. I might be needing the car sooner rather than later.

I thought the cx-5 didnt have any towing capacity and was physically smaller in size, that's why I didnt look at it.

Also, I dont think I want another Mazda. And you can get more for your money in other things like the hyundai

But that depreciation value?

[boo-ninja]

Speed 3 (buyers remorse on buying the GT!) or a WRX

[r4mi5awi]

Speed 3 (buyers remorse on buying the GT!) or a WRX

I'm with you on the wrx. Recently debuted version has caught my eye although pricing a current gen brings you to BMW 3 series territory so not sure if the awd premium, resale hit is that worth it. Decisions, decisions.

[rajin929]

What do you guys think about the Nissan Frontier or Toyota Tacoma?

taco in the bag FTW!

http://image.minitruckinweb.com/f/features/toyota/1211mt_2011_toyota_tacoma_el_stocko_taco/43245201/1211mt-04%252B2011-toyota-tacoma%252Bmotion.jpg

[bhrm]

Have you considered the Benz B Series (http://www.mercedes-benz.ca/content/canada/mpc/mpc_canada_website/en/home_mpc/passengercars/home/new_cars/models/b-class/w246.flash.html)?
Would have bought this instead of the CX-5 but could not wait for the trim/options at that time.

Yup, haven't tested it yet. I've been in the previous generation B-Class, a fully loaded one but the CVT was absolute junk. Friend's B200 turbo had entire tranny replaced after multiple problems and spending way too long at the shop. Probably the worst benz my friend's family owned, after many years with old 190E's, 300's that never failed.

However, the idea, size and utility make it very attractive.

[Jsquared]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v481/wookamachine/cla45amg_zps9c516675.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/wookamachine/media/cla45amg_zps9c516675.jpg.html)

Long term planning indeed.....Just called the dealership for tracking information on our new car. With Mercedes Benz AMG you can track your order from build to pick up date.

Unfortunately our pick up date has just officially changed from March 15th 2014 to sometime between June and August 2014.

Edit: Email from dealer...

The vehicle is very high demands and we Sold more than what manufacture could produce in 2013.
We have the following orders before yours.
August 13 1 Order has been completed
September 3 Orders Waiting
Early October 2 Orders Waiting
You order is Number 7.
Thank you for your patience I will continue to update you in March.

[r4mi5awi]

It's all good. More time to financially plan, save or find mod ideas 😄

[Jsquared]

After my initial F$&% I realized this is indeed for the better for the exact reasons you posted haha. I also cant complain as I do have a speed 3 with low mileage that is still under warranty until October 2014.

Good things come to those who wait!

[justletmepost]

Going to be a father in a few months...Not sure what kind of replacement yet but leaning towards a van just for the convenience.

[The Wolf]

I have already posted in this thread I think, but I forget my answer.

Next car won't be low, unless it's on air.

Right now thinking WRX wagon or Forrester, Genesis coupe, or e36/46

[Stathakos]

Either the next generation speed 3, or an FRS

[doughboyr6]

Very likely the forte5 sx for us. Cheap and loaded.