CEL P2177/P2187 but no obvious symptoms? (Newbie here)

[EdisLeado]

I've been having some trouble trying to diagnose this issue I'm having with my 2004 Mazda3 2.3l hatchback. I'm still new to fixing/tinkering with cars and was hoping to get some help on narrowing down what is causing a P2177/2187 CEL with my car.

This is a used car I purchased recently and as far as I know, after taking a look under the hood, the only modification to the car that was made was the installation of a cold air intake. While idling, the engine's RPM remains steady. There is, however, a slight amount of shuddering when the car is at a standstill which leads me to believe there is some kind of vacuum leak. Although, whether this is considered normal or it is due to the extremely cold temperatures where I live, I don't know. I'm not experiencing any problems like stalling when I stop a red light/stop sign, nor any issues with handling or acceleration and getting up to speed, although the car can be a little difficult to start up in the morning after sitting in the cold for the night.

While I was getting the wheels balanced at a local garage, I also got the mechanics there to diagnose what might be causing the CELs. They concluded that it is likely due to a damaged (or "rotting", as they said) PCV hose, and because it's apparently very difficult to access (as it is under the intake manifold), it would cost around $300 worth of labour on top of the costs for the parts themselves.

From my extensive googling, possible reasons for the P2177/2187 CEL could be an contaminated MAF sensor, a stuck purge valve, the PCV valve, or a vacuum leak? As I mentioned in the thread title, I can't really feel any problems while driving, but then again, something I perceive as normal might be otherwise.

Anyone have any advice for me on where to start? I'm aware that a lean/rich CEL can be quite serious, so would it best if just take it into the garage for it to be fixed for the aforementioned price?

[silverstarmazda]

not sure if helping but here. looks like there could be a tsb for your codes so take it to the dealer and see what they can dig up.

http://www.obd-codes.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8216

[TheMAN]

bad purge valve, replace it
http://www.protegefaq.net/tsb/01-025-05.html

shame on you silverstar... you've been here for so long, those codes should've been familiar to you to some degree by now! it's a common issue that's discussed in too many threads here... it's understandable he couldn't find them or heard about them because he's new, but you?

[silverstarmazda]

bad purge valve, replace it
http://www.protegefaq.net/tsb/01-025-05.html

shame on you silverstar... you've been here for so long, those codes should've been familiar to you to some degree by now! it's a common issue that's discussed in too many threads here... it's understandable he couldn't find them or heard about them because he's new, but you?

lol i dont read codes often aha

[TheMAN]

but threads about this comes up often enough, that's my point... even if you don't work on cars all the time, these two codes should be familiar to you by now since you hang out here often enough

[silverstarmazda]

but threads about this comes up often enough, that's my point... even if you don't work on cars all the time, these two codes should be familiar to you by now since you hang out here often enough

honestly, ive only seen a couple newer threads with an actual code to provide. everything else is just symptoms described from a member. i also dont remember codes off the top of my head, i just dont deal with it that often enough.

but we got you, your experienced in this field. so in the end, questions that do get asked are answered. (mostly by you lol)

[sudz]

honestly, ive only seen a couple newer threads with an actual code to provide. everything else is just symptoms described from a member. i also dont remember codes off the top of my head, i just dont deal with it that often enough.

but we got you, your experienced in this field. so in the end, questions that do get asked are answered. (mostly by you lol)

Unless its a P0113. Anyone with a CAI should have that one memorized. lol.

[EdisLeado]

bad purge valve, replace it
http://www.protegefaq.net/tsb/01-025-05.html

shame on you silverstar... you've been here for so long, those codes should've been familiar to you to some degree by now! it's a common issue that's discussed in too many threads here... it's understandable he couldn't find them or heard about them because he's new, but you?

So this would be the likely culprit for the 2187/2177 CEL? I checked around and a Mazda dealership appears to have one in stock that I can pick up. It has the part number LF661874X and will cost $121.56. I'm thinking of grabbing it and replacing it as soon as I can, but is it possible to just clean the one I have currently?

[EdisLeado]

It seems I have 2 options for PVS's in my area. One is an OEM PVS and the other is made by Dorman (911-700) and both are sold for around the same price. Should I opt for the OEM part or will the Dorman do a better job?

[rajin929]

if the price difference is small, i'd go OEM

[EdisLeado]

So I guess I'm going with the OEM purge valve then! I'm hoping replacing it will get rid of that pesky engine light. As I mentioned before, I can't feel anything wrong with the car as it is now though.

Just as a quick note, would it be possible to just clean the purge valve I have now? Would I use Seafoam or can I just do it by hand?

[TheMAN]

no
it's the solenoid that gets sticky and intermittently gets stuck open, which is what causes the problems

just replace it.... the new ones are an updated/redesigned part

you'll want to do it in a heated garage or if the engine is still warm because the plastic clips will get brittle or hard to pry open in the cold
I wouldn't dare try to mess with it this week!

[rajin929]

no
it's the solenoid that gets sticky and intermittently gets stuck open, which is what causes the problems


funny enough our car just threw the P2187 code this morning lol
probably with the very cold weather it got stuck like you mentioned

[EdisLeado]

no
it's the solenoid that gets sticky and intermittently gets stuck open, which is what causes the problems

just replace it.... the new ones are an updated/redesigned part

you'll want to do it in a heated garage or if the engine is still warm because the plastic clips will get brittle or hard to pry open in the cold
I wouldn't dare try to mess with it this week!


funny enough our car just threw the P2187 code this morning lol
probably with the very cold weather it got stuck like you mentioned

Makes a lot of sense. Fingers crossed that it'll just go away when the weather gets warmer and it doesn't cause any other problems! I'll probably just pick up the part and leave it until it's much warmer out.

[rajin929]

In addition to the P2187, also got P0442 which i've read could be the gas cap or another small leak in the emissions system. I'm thinking it could just be related to the purge valve.

No driveability issues so I've cleared the codes, but am curious to see if it'll come back again or when the weather gets warmer