Windows 7 vs Windows 8.1 vs OS X Mavericks

[Nova 3 GT]

Good morning TM3,

Since Windows XP is pretty much retired since April 8th 2014, I'm a little bit torn on either building a new PC that can handle Windows 7 slash 8.1 easily or going to the other side or the Force and buying a Mac (iMac or Mac Pro).

Money is not a problem but I'm not going to spend 10 000$ for a computer :P ;)

I've heard many people saying that from using XP to Windows 8 was a real PITA and without the Start butto and it's hard to navigate in the OS. Win7 has the Start Button but the OS is supported until 2020 and on top of that, it's expensive and rare: I saw an OEM copy for Win7 Ultimate for 300$ :whoa

I've been using XP for well over 15 years including the betas way back in 2000 and it's kinda hard leaving the PC world after all these years. Heck, I've gained most of my computer skills by using MS-DOS 5.0 and Windows 3.1 lol! :chuckle

So what are you guys and gals using as OS on your computers? Any inputs about their usability ?

[SirWanker]

Well, what do you primarily use your system for?
How much are you willing to pay for iOS compatible software?

[Nova 3 GT]

Well, what do you primarily use your system for?
How much are you willing to pay for iOS compatible software?

Pretty much for everything minus hardcore gaming (latest power hungry games). What do you mean by "iOS compatible software"?

Forgot to add that if I go Mac, I'll be dual booting or running VMWare

[SilentJay]

You're going to start an all out Windows vs. Mac fanboy war :/

Simply put, as long as the software you're looking to use on this new computer is compatible with your OS of choice, you're good to go.


Don't forget the massive Mac pricetags :chuckle

[Innovator]

I am pretty sure with Windows 8.1 you can set it up to look like older version with start button and everything.

[Nova 3 GT]

You're going to start an all out Windows vs. Mac fanboy war :/

Simply put, as long as the software you're looking to use on this new computer is compatible with your OS of choice, you're good to go.


Don't forget the massive Mac pricetags :chuckle

Yeah the hefty price tag I'm aware of that :P but I never intent to start a PC vs Mac war.

Just wanted to know if the usabilty is really that bad in Windows 8.1

[XTOTHEL]

I heard 30 year old asian woman on Instagram like macs better.


http://www.lolicatgirls.com/g/software/comparison/Operating%20systems%20as%20dogs.jpg

[Como]

I use mavericks on and older macbook with a dual boot setup to windows 7 ultimate. If you are switching to mac this is prolly the best way to go. Using the bootcamp in mac you crate a completely separate partition which keeps everything "windows" on that partition while still being able to access all your mac information And vise versa.
Putting mac on a windows pc is a lot more tedious and doesn't always run so smoothly. Windows 7 on my mac is so far flawless.

I also have a netbook running ubuntu 13.4. I don't use it for much other than just surfing the web and stuff. Works just fine for that.

[Kiewan]

I am using newer imacs with calibrated screens running the OS previous to mavericks at school for post production. They run all of the adobe products very well and were the easiest computers to get the go ahead from YorkU to buy for a student lab.
That being said, they are very capable, but I don't like using them much. CS6, illustrator and lightroom are all a dream in terms of useablility but that's about it.

I have a cheap Toshiba satellite laptop running 7 at home and a nexus 4 and 5 for everyday stuff. I prefer android and cyanogenmod nowadays but I do think 7 is easy to learn if you have a background in Microsoft products.

PS: I thought there was a patch available to bring back the start button for 8 or something like that.

[dambay]

I am using newer imacs with calibrated screens running the OS previous to mavericks at school for post production. They run all of the adobe products very well and were the easiest computers to get the go ahead from YorkU to buy for a student lab.
That being said, they are very capable, but I don't like using them much. CS6, illustrator and lightroom are all a dream in terms of useablility but that's about it.

I have a cheap Toshiba satellite laptop running 7 at home and a nexus 4 and 5 for everyday stuff. I prefer android and cyanogenmod nowadays but I do think 7 is easy to learn if you have a background in Microsoft products.

PS: I thought there was a patch available to bring back the start button for 8 or something like that.

Windows 8.1 + Classic Shell (a small program that gives you back your start menu)

I've been using Windows 8/8.1 for about a year now, and with classic shell, you quickly forget that its not Windows 7. It'd also be an easy transition from XP.

[07carbon3]

OS X

[Nova 3 GT]

I use mavericks on and older macbook with a dual boot setup to windows 7 ultimate. If you are switching to mac this is prolly the best way to go. Using the bootcamp in mac you crate a completely separate partition which keeps everything "windows" on that partition while still being able to access all your mac information And vise versa.
Putting mac on a windows pc is a lot more tedious and doesn't always run so smoothly. Windows 7 on my mac is so far flawless.

I also have a netbook running ubuntu 13.4. I don't use it for much other than just surfing the web and stuff. Works just fine for that.

Yea, building a Hackintosh is trickier because you MUST have the exact hardware model for it to work correctly under OS X.

[cereal83]

I am using newer imacs with calibrated screens running the OS previous to mavericks at school for post production. They run all of the adobe products very well and were the easiest computers to get the go ahead from YorkU to buy for a student lab.
That being said, they are very capable, but I don't like using them much. CS6, illustrator and lightroom are all a dream in terms of useablility but that's about it.

I have a cheap Toshiba satellite laptop running 7 at home and a nexus 4 and 5 for everyday stuff. I prefer android and cyanogenmod nowadays but I do think 7 is easy to learn if you have a background in Microsoft products.

PS: I thought there was a patch available to bring back the start button for 8 or something like that.

Thank god for you mentioned you had calibrated screens, I mean if you didn't like I would be speechless.

Also, He asked about Win 8.1 vs Mac and you start talking about u have 2 Nexus phones with android and like Cyanogenmod ???? Makes no sense.



Anyways to add to the post, just get a Windows 8.1 machine, u will get used to the Metro screen and lack of the "normal" start menu within a week. It's windows, it works well and it's what you know. You could try a mac but performance per dollar will go further with a prebuilt windows machine. If you're a rich, get both windows 8.1 and a Mac, use them for a while and you will see what is better.

[m_bisson]

I'm still in the windows 7 camp. Windows 9 will just be the next version of win7 anyways.
Win8.1 still has too many issues that are really embarrassing considering the brain power over at Microsoft.

[Nova 3 GT]

I'm still in the windows 7 camp. Windows 9 will just be the next version of win7 anyways.
Win8.1 still has too many issues that are really embarrassing considering the brain power over at Microsoft.

Yeah from the looks of it, many users treat Windows 8.1 as the modern Vista/ME flop.

[LimeWan]

I was also a Windows user my whole life up until getting my MacBook (which I am typing on as we speak) in fall of 2011, and I can't imagine my whole personal computer experience the same without it.

Now, keep in mind, I use this computer for leisure use as well as programming, so the application of my computer may be different than yours, but it just goes to show that a Mac can handle most, if not all things you could need. The only thing that I don't have very much experience with is games, which may still run decent, but why would you even consider a Mac in that case?

Why?

Everything just works.

Before getting a Mac, like most people, I would flame it just for the sake of flaming it. "Oh, it's just overhyped, overpriced junk", but honestly, it's far from it.

The hardware itself is very well built (something that no one can deny), OS is polished, and running Windows 7, 8, 8.1, and various Linux distro's when I need them run just as well as a good desktop I've got at home. I've never had to use antivirus on this computer, and it works just as well as the day I got it.

Windows specific programs can be run in a virtual machine, can be run as a Mac application with a windows wrapper (Free: WineSkin, Paid: Crossover), or can use Coherence mode from Parallels VM to run the program just as it looks on Windows without weird formatting that the wrapper sometimes causes (yet means you have to emulate the whole Windows OS, but not very CPU intensive). Won't even bring up Bootcamp, as it is simply a pain, and I have honestly never used it aside from the time that I set it up. (I actually still have the partition of it taking up space on my HDD).

Would also like to add; my dad, a dedicated Windows user whose job relies on his XP machine for a certain .NET framework, after helping him configure a new Mac, he also can never go back to his PC, simply because he has everything that he had from his old PC, PLUS a very well built computer, access to OS X specific applications, and many thing and beyond what I have mentioned in this post (which is not a lot, I'll admit. Tired as fuuuu).

I can try and answer more specific questions, as my post may have been a bit scattered and unorganized. Just wanted to get some info out there.

Best of luck OP!

[Nova 3 GT]

LimeWan, speaking of virtual machine, is Parallels the ultimate VM software or if Fusion is just as good? And, must I buy the full price retail version of Windows (7 prolly) or can I get away with an OEM version?

Oh and the most important question: When configuring the Mac at Apple's website, is it wiser to get a slightly more powerful (more CPU horsepower and more RAM) than the base model?

As of now, I'm leaning toawrds the iMac 27" quad-core i7 3.5GHz, 16GB of RAM, 512GB SSD of storage and the GTX 780M. I might be able to stick with the standard 8GB of RAM and upgrade my self to 32GB in the future.

[XTOTHEL]

The ram on the 27 is user accessible.

[r4BBiT]

I was also a Windows user my whole life up until getting my MacBook (which I am typing on as we speak) in fall of 2011, and I can't imagine my whole personal computer experience the same without it.

Now, keep in mind, I use this computer for leisure use as well as programming, so the application of my computer may be different than yours, but it just goes to show that a Mac can handle most, if not all things you could need. The only thing that I don't have very much experience with is games, which may still run decent, but why would you even consider a Mac in that case?

Why?

Everything just works.

Before getting a Mac, like most people, I would flame it just for the sake of flaming it. "Oh, it's just overhyped, overpriced junk", but honestly, it's far from it.

The hardware itself is very well built (something that no one can deny), OS is polished, and running Windows 7, 8, 8.1, and various Linux distro's when I need them run just as well as a good desktop I've got at home. I've never had to use antivirus on this computer, and it works just as well as the day I got it.

Windows specific programs can be run in a virtual machine, can be run as a Mac application with a windows wrapper (Free: WineSkin, Paid: Crossover), or can use Coherence mode from Parallels VM to run the program just as it looks on Windows without weird formatting that the wrapper sometimes causes (yet means you have to emulate the whole Windows OS, but not very CPU intensive). Won't even bring up Bootcamp, as it is simply a pain, and I have honestly never used it aside from the time that I set it up. (I actually still have the partition of it taking up space on my HDD).

Would also like to add; my dad, a dedicated Windows user whose job relies on his XP machine for a certain .NET framework, after helping him configure a new Mac, he also can never go back to his PC, simply because he has everything that he had from his old PC, PLUS a very well built computer, access to OS X specific applications, and many thing and beyond what I have mentioned in this post (which is not a lot, I'll admit. Tired as fuuuu).

I can try and answer more specific questions, as my post may have been a bit scattered and unorganized. Just wanted to get some info out there.

Best of luck OP!

Well, I don't know what programming are you doing, but I'm going to say you are not writing Windows apps. Aside from Visual Studio IDE being for Windows, testing would be "interesting" to say the least.


LimeWan, speaking of virtual machine, is Parallels the ultimate VM software or if Fusion is just as good? And, must I buy the full price retail version of Windows (7 prolly) or can I get away with an OEM version?

Oh and the most important question: When configuring the Mac at Apple's website, is it wiser to get a slightly more powerful (more CPU horsepower and more RAM) than the base model?

As of now, I'm leaning toawrds the iMac 27" quad-core i7 3.5GHz, 16GB of RAM, 512GB SSD of storage and the GTX 780M. I might be able to stick with the standard 8GB of RAM and upgrade my self to 32GB in the future.

You don't need 16GB of RAM; 8GB is more than enough for normal home use. My work computer has 12GB and I have never seen my RAM usage more than 8GB and this is with like three development IDEs and many other applications running for many days.

[LimeWan]

LimeWan, speaking of virtual machine, is Parallels the ultimate VM software or if Fusion is just as good? And, must I buy the full price retail version of Windows (7 prolly) or can I get away with an OEM version?

Oh and the most important question: When configuring the Mac at Apple's website, is it wiser to get a slightly more powerful (more CPU horsepower and more RAM) than the base model?

As of now, I'm leaning toawrds the iMac 27" quad-core i7 3.5GHz, 16GB of RAM, 512GB SSD of storage and the GTX 780M. I might be able to stick with the standard 8GB of RAM and upgrade my self to 32GB in the future.

Fail in the editing of my post. Went back to add stuff before the "Why?" part, and messed it all up:bang

Anyway, as for your first question, yes. There is no better virtual machine program. Period.

I remember trying VMWare 5 at the time (Believe around the time of parallels 7?), and it just didn't work as smooth as parallels. I remember a simply resizing of the VM window wouldn't even work properly (I don't even think it worked at all). It could have just been a setting I had to tick, but why wouldn't it be enabled off the bat then?

Like the whole mac OS, Parallels is just polished. Everything works, and works well. I haven't even taken a look at VMWare 6, but honestly, I don't even care. When parallels functions as the perfect virtual machine, why would I be interested in something else? I actually just checked VMWare's website, and their site looks really nice and clean, but from my experience, does not reflect the experience I had with the program. Not to mention Parallels is cheaper at $80 I believe, whereas VMWare is $130? Had it been the other way around, I would still say get Parallels, simply because it's the superior software, and the difference really is negligible in the long run.

As for the configuration options, I took a look at them, and ultimately, it comes down to what you want to do with the computer.

I'm also the type that wants the best, and hate it when people tell me that 'the base model is enough for you', but only to a certain point. For just a home user, I think the core i5 clocked at 3.4 GHz and the 775m are MORE than enough for a home user. Even if you are considering playing with final cut pro or logic or anything along those lines, you shouldn't forget that these are not mediocre specs. They have those in place for professionals whose jobs rely on this stuff.

Now I also like to consider how the hardware will stack up for years to come, and for an iMac where you are limited to only upgrading the hard drive or the RAM freely, this is important.

If you are a not using this computer entirely for 3D processing, video editing, or anything of that nature, I say the upgraded options are overkill. Even if you are a professional, the base model more than meets your needs. We're talking just a few minutes faster render time in a large file (with overall render time upwards of 30 min) with the i5 vs i7.

Just to put this out there, I've got a 2.7 GHz core i7 (I believe sandy bridge), and upgraded stock 4GB to 16GB of RAM (got a good price), and upgraded to a 256 GB hard drive.

For RAM, you could always upgrade down the line, so no need to rush. See how you're using the computer.

Now, as for the SSD, I think it's CRUCIAL to have one when spending this much for a machine (for any machine actually), but 512 GB is overkill. 256 GB is enough, and here's why. Ideally, you want to limit your writes to your SSD, as their lifespan is said to be shorter than a traditional hard drive. I wouldn't let this worry you though. The important thing to take from this is that if you only store the operating system and your apps in the SSD, everything opens up immediately. All of your files and all other stuff, I would recommend storing on an external hard drive, as this will be a home computer that doesn't move. I remember seeing a 4TB western digital drive at Costco for $130 (saw the deal on red flag deals).

To sum up, I say 3.4 GHz core i5, 256 GB SSD, 8GB RAM, and 775m GPU.

Apple seems to be inline with market price of these items. Not sure if they are same specs as store bought SSD's, but for $200 and it being Apple, I'd say it's a good buy.

[LimeWan]

Well, I don't know what programming are you doing, but I'm going to say you are not writing Windows apps. Aside from Visual Studio IDE being for Windows, testing would be "interesting" to say the least.


When needed to use C++, I was using Visual Studio 2013 inside my Parallels VM, with 4GB memory allocated to the VM, and compile times were just slightly slower than my 3.4 GHz Dell XPS desktop (but really only because of CPU clock speed). In identical PC to my mac would have seen negligible differences. C++ is a pain to compile on any machine anyway. But you're right. Right now, I'm on Java, in which I've been using IntelliJ for mac, which I am very, very pleased with.

[XTOTHEL]

I believe OS X will use up the majority of the ram...probably for caching. I have 16GB and when I'm not doing anything, I use about 12GB. Only time I really use my RAM was when I'm stitching a lot of photos together to make panoramas...15mins wait time haha

[LimeWan]

LimeWan, speaking of virtual machine, is Parallels the ultimate VM software or if Fusion is just as good? And, must I buy the full price retail version of Windows (7 prolly) or can I get away with an OEM version?

Forget to address this part. OEM version of what? Parallels doesn't supply Windows for the user. You must get it yourself. I am not going to say that I got my copy through other means (the, 'buccaneer lake', if you will), but my copy has been activated ever since. No need for a script to run every 6 months with a specific windows 8 activator I will not name.

You'll have to either buy it, get lucky and get a deal on it, or go down the path less traveled by (I would actually say more. Not even sure about this).

[LimeWan]

I believe OS X will use up the majority of the ram...probably for caching. I have 16GB and when I'm not doing anything, I use about 12GB. Only time I really use my RAM was when I'm stitching a lot of photos together to make panoramas...15mins wait time haha

Just opened Windows 7 Ultimate in Parallels to check, and OS X is only using 1.7 GB of memory. Safari a whopping 4.5. Parallels, only .5 with nothing open.

I should also state that I'm on 10.6, and not 10.9. I also have a 10.9 partition, and what I will say is that certain things do feel snappier on Mavericks. Sleeping and waking up computer is instant, whereas on 10.6, it takes about a second to wake, 2 seconds to sleep.

[m_bisson]

http://lifehacker.com/mac-vs-windows-your-best-arguments-486125257

[Nova 3 GT]

Forget to address this part. OEM version of what? Parallels doesn't supply Windows for the user. You must get it yourself. I am not going to say that I got my copy through other means (the, 'buccaneer lake', if you will), but my copy has been activated ever since. No need for a script to run every 6 months with a specific windows 8 activator I will not name.

You'll have to either buy it, get lucky and get a deal on it, or go down the path less traveled by (I would actually say more. Not even sure about this).


By OEM I meant buying the Windows 7 DVD from a place like newegg.ca. No fancy box neither.

[m_bisson]

That's legit. I bought 2 copies through my university. Digital download only. Then I burned my own iso.

[S.F.W.]

thread has been cleaned up and re-opened. No discussion of pirated copies or similar topics will be tolerated.

[m_bisson]

^^^ to clarify my last post, you can pay less than the oem version from ncix or wherever and still obtain it legally.

Any friends in university? Or maybe try your old uni/college email address?
I've been done University for 2 years and I just bought Windows 8.1 two months ago via Microsofts student discount thing.

[SirWanker]

^^^ to clarify my last post, you can pay less than the oem version from ncix or wherever and still obtain it legally.

Any friends in university? Or maybe try your old uni/college email address?
I've been done University for 2 years and I just bought Windows 8.1 two months ago via Microsofts student discount thing.

Better yet, if you have any friends with an MSDN subscription, depending on the level, they may grace you with a legit copy & key.

[ryan2.3]

^^^ to clarify my last post, you can pay less than the oem version from ncix or wherever and still obtain it legally.

Any friends in university? Or maybe try your old uni/college email address?
I've been done University for 2 years and I just bought Windows 8.1 two months ago via Microsofts student discount thing.

i came in to post similar... if you or a friend/relateve are in school still, i know that with engineering, the MSDNAA gives you access to all kind of discounted or free software.

When i was in school i was given 4 different XP licenses, 6 Vista licences and 2 windows 7 licenses free. I ended up putting the 32bit on my laptop and the 64bit on my desktop. I don't use the vista's or xp's, but i kept them as a just in case.

Also if you know anyone who gets discounts through work. My mom's work was being updated to office 2013 and they were doing sales for personal use. I got a copy of office 2013 pro for $10

[r4BBiT]

Better yet, if you have any friends with an MSDN subscription, depending on the level, they may grace you with a legit copy & key.

+1, I have one and that's how I got my Windows 7 and my dad his Windows 8 :)

[ds2chan]

I'm on Windows 7 and love it. I tried Windows 8.1 for like 2 hours and couldn't get use to it. Then I found out about Classic Shell (http://www.classicshell.net/) but I don't have a computer that has Windows 8.1 so I didn't try it out.

I don't have experience on the latest version of the Mac OS (I forget the name of it) but I hear it's good. Since I'm a Windows guy I can't comment on Mac.

[gabbygenier]

There are pros and cons to all of them. here are my thoughts on them all. just my opinion. i work at Canada Computers as a tech in Ottawa, so I've seen many different issues for all of them. and yes we see lots of mac's since were close to one of the apple stores and they send many ppl our way for hardware

windows 7. ppl are used to it, ppl like it. and not too many issues with them. not too many driver issues due to it being around for a while. games mostly work with no issues. most ppl that have issues with games are cause by video card drivers.

windows 8/8.1 ppl don't like change. so ppl don't like it to start with due to the start menu. easy to fix though with classic shell and many other programs that are free out there. there are lots of great features about windows 8 that ppl dont know about and id say 90% of the ppl wont even use them. all sorts of new things that work a lot better then 7. there are a lot of driver issues with 8.1. i still don't quite understand why as 8.1 is simply 8 with a service pack. the start menu is made for a touch screen. personally i think they should give you the option, kind of like how you can make 7 look like xp.

Mac. as someone mentioned, everything just works. i do have to agree with that, main reason is. they create the drivers. not 3rd party companies and also the fact that they basically only have one OS to write for, as opposed to multiple for other components like video cards, sound cards, etc.. I do bug the mazdabetty a lot cause she has a macbook but i do have to say, they are well built. my issue with them is the price tag. specially since they have switched over to Intel CPU's. they don't really have anything specific other then an OS as opposed to a windows machine. you can even upgrade the CPU in the new imacs since they are the newer intel's.

Another thing i see often is dead hard drives in the mac's. Often. they are just very corrupted drives to the point that the OS does not load anymore, but id say 70% of the time. the rest of the time, drives are dead. its strange since the ppl go to the apple store to get it diagnosed and they tell them the drive is dead. i think the reason they do that is cause they don't want ppl to know their OS can get corrupted like windows and its not perfect like everyone thinks. now i don't know if there's a reason behind the dead hard drives, or if ppl just don't realize you should not move a laptop when the computer is on unless it has an SSD (most ppl look surprised when you tell them that). and we also do change some hard drives in the imac's. I have to say that most of the macbooks we see. the owners really don't care that they just paid 1000$+ for it cause they are in horrible shape.

The newest thing that bothers me about the new macbooks is the fact that the ram is built into the mobo. so lets say your ram fails. you have to buy a new mobo and not simply a stick of ram.

as for the hackintosh. its very easy to do these days due to intel cpu's. i did one. it took me a bit of time to get the sound to work. but everything else worked off the bat. i didn't really read any how to's on how to make one, i just did it. and i didn't really spend much time on it as were always busy. i have it dual boot hackintosh and windows 7 on a single SSD with chameleon. 3930K in it, 16gigs of ram. the thing is a beast haha. boots in about 10 seconds from being off.