Toyo Observe GSi5 vs Michelin X-Ice Xi3

[Cricket]

Just for argument sake, does the Toyo Observe GSi5 or Michelin X-Ice Xi3 work better on a Mazda3?
Based on some winter discussions I've come across, Toyo seems to be the most recommended tire from tire techs, however, the Michelin X-Ice Xi3 seems to be the most common with what people have on their cars.

With so many options of winter tires available and different car manufacturers, does one brand of tire work better on one model of car?

Just curious,
Thanks

[staax]

In short - no.

It all comes down to personnel preference and the type of driving you do.

I've run X-ice and loved them, but most of my driving is in the city where the plows are quick and I deal with mostly compact snow and ice.

I don't drive through too much thick stuff where I'm looking for deep tread to cut through the snow.

One tire that I was pleasantly surprised with we're the Goodyear Nordics for deep snow purposes.

Never tried the blizzaks or the Toyos. But the Michelin's are great on ice and compacted snow.

[rajin929]

+1 on personal preference.

I prefer the chunkier tread of the toyo's. I used to run toyo GO2-plus and just picked up a fresh set of GSi5's for this season.
My daily commute takes me though some hilly country side roads before hitting the city streets so snow traction is more important to me

[midnightfxgt]

As someone who has sold tons of both.... you will likely LOVE either of these. I find the Toyo a little better in some of the deeper stuff as the previous posters have mentioned.

If I was between the two, and one was a fair bit cheaper, I'd go with it. Both top of the line tires, and great choices.

[Cab0oze]

My thoughts:
Brands are meaningless in cases like this. So Techs saying "Toyo is the best" is totally meaningless. I've seen top brand names make crap tires, and I've seen crap brand names make amazing tires. Only way to get a feel for a particular tire is to look at reviews, and even that can be misleading, because as you pointed out, there are a million different applications. Put excellent tires on a GenCoupe for example and it'll still be rubbish in the winter compared to a fwd car. And then there is the road noise... major factor when buying tires, but some people are more sensitive to this than others, depending how loud their summer tires are.

That being said, I have Xice Xi2s and they have been absolutely amazing over the last 4 winters. They also have hundreds of amazing reviews, and many of them coming from people driving mazda3s. I would assume the Xi3s would be similar / an excellent choice.
Always comes down to the price though. Pick out a few models of tires (as you've already partially done) that all seem to be good choices, and then find out which set you can get the best price on.

[Typh00n]

Anyone knows which one would get longer durability?? I'm actually leaning towards XI3 or GSi5 (wanted Blizzak WS80 at first, but heard durability is less impressive) and there's a difference of like 15$ each (129.25$ EA for GSi5 VS 144.92$ for Xi3 - at quattrotires.com). So I'm really not sure for now between those 2.

[staax]

One if the tires.... I BELIEVE its the Blizzaks which use a different rubbery compound for the first 50% of the tires life, then its a more hard compound making it less effective... Which is what I think they based the life off of. Please confirm this as I read this somewhere.

The Michelin X-ice are rated for 60k... I can't speak of this but my girlfriend is going into her third winter with these tires and her tread depth is a hair over 8/32nds... I would guess she's done 15-20k.

Tires are still fantastic. And like I said I've never used the blizzaks.

[patrickdominick]

SpeedyBread

[S.F.W.]

If you are considering the WS80, you should also consider the continental winter contact SI.

[Typh00n]

One if the tires.... I BELIEVE its the Blizzaks which use a different rubbery compound for the first 50% of the tires life, then its a more hard compound making it less effective... Which is what I think they based the life off of. Please confirm this as I read this somewhere.

The Michelin X-ice are rated for 60k... I can't speak of this but my girlfriend is going into her third winter with these tires and her tread depth is a hair over 8/32nds... I would guess she's done 15-20k.

Tires are still fantastic. And like I said I've never used the blizzaks.

I think you're right about the compound of the blizzaks. I heard that they perform perfectly at first, but as they wear down, they're not that good.

For the Xi3, are they ok on snow? I've read bad things about them in snowy conditions (deep snow, unpacked snow).

As for the Continental winter contact SI that S.F.W talks about, I read (link below) that the thread isn't that deep even new, so I'm not so sure about them and their durability in the long run. Says in those review that the Toyo seems to have good durability ("Superior durability due to the deep tread and long-wearing rubber compound" - Link below).

http://www.apa.ca/wintertire_reviews.asp

[gotak]

Anyone knows which one would get longer durability?? I'm actually leaning towards XI3 or GSi5 (wanted Blizzak WS80 at first, but heard durability is less impressive) and there's a difference of like 15$ each (129.25$ EA for GSi5 VS 144.92$ for Xi3 - at quattrotires.com). So I'm really not sure for now between those 2.

Tread depth helps you accelerate, stop and corner in snow. After 50% is gone you really aren't getting the full benefits anymore so does it matter?

I say this from personal experience with X-ice that you can argue are still ok for one more winter at 50%. Just when you can stomp on the brakes in a 4900 lb SUV with new winter tires with no ABS drama, but the Speed 3's ABS is going nuts with moderate braking on old winters.. you start to think umm maybe I need new tires...

[Cab0oze]

Tread depth helps you accelerate, stop and corner in snow. After 50% is gone you really aren't getting the full benefits anymore so does it matter?

Depends how "on a budget" you are. Right now I'm nearly at my wear bars but I don't want to replace as it is the last winter with this car. 95% of the time I'm driving fully plowed roads, so all I need is rubber that can grip, I don't care how deep the tread blocks are. It would be annoying to have to replace the tires because they started being dangerous before even getting to the wear bars.

[staax]

I think you're right about the compound of the blizzaks. I heard that they perform perfectly at first, but as they wear down, they're not that good.

For the Xi3, are they ok on snow? I've read bad things about them in snowy conditions (deep snow, unpacked snow).

As for the Continental winter contact SI that S.F.W talks about, I read (link below) that the thread isn't that deep even new, so I'm not so sure about them and their durability in the long run. Says in those review that the Toyo seems to have good durability ("Superior durability due to the deep tread and long-wearing rubber compound" - Link below).

http://www.apa.ca/wintertire_reviews.asp

Most of the driving we do here in Ottawa is on plowed roads, a lot of which have iced over and I can't complain about the X-ices.

Just last night I spoke to my uncle who ran the model before the Toyo GSI5 and he loved those tires. He bought the WS80 blizzaks and ran them last year and wasn't that impressed.

Never tried the continental winter contacts, but I'm running the true contacts in the summer and I think they are a fantastic tire. Rated for high mileage, quiet, good in the rain... Can't complain. Continental is a good name too.

Guess its ultimately gonna come down to your decision.

[midnightfxgt]

The Blizzak's are good all the way down, just like any other tire.

NO - They do not use some Hard or All Season compound for the last 50% of them.

[midnightfxgt]

Tread depth helps you accelerate, stop and corner in snow. After 50% is gone you really aren't getting the full benefits anymore so does it matter?


Pretty much! General rule of thumb is to not start a winter on a winter tire lower than 6/32nds of tread. Will people follow that advice? Not usually.

[staax]

The Blizzak's are good all the way down, just like any other tire.

NO - They do not use some Hard or All Season compound for the last 50% of them.
What Makes Blizzak WS60, WS70, WS80, DM-V1 and DM-V2 Winter / Snow Tires Special?
Blizzak WS (Winter Studless) and DM (Dueler Multicel tires feature dual tread compounds consisting of outer tread cap and underlying base compounds. When viewed through a microscope, the outer Blizzak Multicell compound resembles the appearance of Swiss cheese because it contains millions of uniformly distributed microscopic pores that are constantly being exposed as the tread surface wears. In addition to providing thousands of miniature biting edges, these pores help wick away the thin layer of water that often develops on top of snow packed and icy roads, allowing the biting edges to better adhere to the surface for more traction. The underlying base compound is a standard winter tread compound.
How Long Will Blizzak Winter / Snow Tires Last?
The Blizzak WS-tires' Multicell tread compound comprises the top 55 percent of the tires' tread depth with a standard winter tread compound comprising the remaining 45 percent. When Blizzaks are approximately 50 percent worn, their "snow platform" tread depth indicators "connect" selected shoulder tread blocks to indicate that the Multicell tread compound is almost worn out, and that the enhanced snow and ice performance is about to end.

[midnightfxgt]

^^^ Correct.

Somewhere along the line a myth started about them having a hard compound, or an all season compound. They are a great tire, just the first 55% is the best

[studum]

It is all personal preference and and even more so being realistic about what kind of driving you do and what you want out of the tire.

I've had X-Ice 2 & 3, the 3's were on my 3 until last year. Personally, I HATED them. However my wife LOVED them when the first set we had were on her car.

The difference: That was her first set of winters that I threw on her old car, so anything was awesome. Also, she mainly drove around town after the streets were plowed, worked locally - didn't venture out too much when weather wasn't great, etc.

Me: I commute to work, and for work. Lots of highway, lots of side roads, all weather conditions.

My opinion: the X-Ice are absolutely great on cold / wet roads in winter temps. A great performing tire on the pavement and they're very quiet. The downfall for me was that as soon as there was more than a couple cm of snow down they lost all of their bite. The went from being awesome to being what felt no better then an all season.

After going through one winter on them on my car, and after getting different tires on my wife's new car when she started commuting farther I bought more aggressive winter's for my 3 during the holidays last year and haven't looked back. The difference for me was immediate - especially when the snow fell.

My current tires are Toyo, my wife's are Cooper. Extremely happy with both, and she even agrees she likes her new ones more than the X-Ice. What we're running now are more aggressive winter tires. May not last as long on the pavement, and may be noisier when there's no snow / slush on the road - but the performance in the white stuff was substantially better which is what really mattered to me / us with how much we drive now.

I really think the only reason why the Michelin are so popular is because they've done a good job of marketing them. Again that's just my opinion though. I guarantee there's people out there who will swear by them.

[gotak]

Depends how "on a budget" you are. Right now I'm nearly at my wear bars but I don't want to replace as it is the last winter with this car. 95% of the time I'm driving fully plowed roads, so all I need is rubber that can grip, I don't care how deep the tread blocks are. It would be annoying to have to replace the tires because they started being dangerous before even getting to the wear bars.

The hard truth is all tires start becoming dangerous in bad weather before they get to the wear bars. That's true for winters, all seasons and summer tires. A summer/all season that had good hydroplaning resistance will be a lot less so way before it's illegal to drive on.

[Cab0oze]

The hard truth is all tires start becoming dangerous in bad weather before they get to the wear bars. That's true for winters, all seasons and summer tires. A summer/all season that had good hydroplaning resistance will be a lot less so way before it's illegal to drive on.
Well that is true for sure. Just gotta be extra careful I guess.

[rajin929]

+1 on the comments of tires being less effective way before the tread hits the wear bars.

in the case of winter tires, the tread new might be 11/32nd's but the sipes that help traction aren't, so even though the tire can now have say 4-5/32's of tread, the tire could have worn through the sipes making the tires much less effective. You might have some tread left for grip, but not so much ice traction