you\'ve got about 2mm past E.. then it stops moving for a while.. then you hitchhike..Quote:
Originally posted by Cardinal Fang
You want to see how far passed the \"E\" you can go? Wasn\'t that a Seinfeld episode?
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you\'ve got about 2mm past E.. then it stops moving for a while.. then you hitchhike..Quote:
Originally posted by Cardinal Fang
You want to see how far passed the \"E\" you can go? Wasn\'t that a Seinfeld episode?
Do people count this 80-100 km when they bitch about gas mileage?
i dunno.. it\'s up to everyone\'s interpretation.. to me if someone says \"500km to a tank\" it would mean, \"i drove 500km before i had to fill up\".. that\'s why mpg or L/100km is so much better..Quote:
Originally posted by Caz
Do people count this 80-100 km when they bitch about gas mileage?
I am just trying to figure out how people are calculating their numbers.
The reason is, on my first tank I got a reading of 10.4
The average speed was 47 km/h
This wasn\'t too bad considering I didn\'t use a major hwy.
I have also been paying attention to the current consumption read out and it is interesting to see difference in how much gas you use during acceleration if you floor it verses just taking it easy from a dead start. If you floor it that reading goes to the high 60\'s while a slower start will be in the 30\'s.
My Last Readings (hwy driving):
I had to go to St. Catharines and meet with a client on Friday. I was driving with a speed of aprox 130 KM/h one way. My Trip Computer reported Avg Cons. : 8.2 L /100 KM and my revs was about 3000 RPM. Getting back to Toronto, It was kind of slow traffic so it reported 8.9 L / 100 KM and my avg speed was about 80 KM/h (a lot of stop and go near Toronto in 401).
the engine is a 2.0 and it\'s a Sedan.
i would be careful about assuming you have 10L of gas or approx. 80km driving distance left when the reserve light comes on.Quote:
Originally posted by majic
about 100km.. by the end i was shitting my pants.. 80km is not a problem.. reserve is 10-12L so depending on the fuel economy but that translates to a tad over 100km..Quote:
Originally posted by Caz
I noticed the light comes on when it says 30 km remaining.
Has anyone ever gone more than 30 km after the light comes on?
I am assuming you can, just haven\'t tried. Not yet anyway.
I know when my light comes on and I fill up, I use almost 50 litres. I don\'t think every sensor can be bang on and say you have 10 litres left.
Try it out for yourself just so you know. You might have 10 or maybe less. It\'s good to know.
that is true.. but b/c i keep track of _my_ mileage i _KNOW_ when my light comes on and i _KNOW_ how much i fill up.. thus i can say i have at least 10L.. and if i \'granny it\' that gives me 80km without a worry.. 110km and i start to sweat.. anything more.. i\'m already dialing for road assistance..Quote:
Originally posted by SABIO
i would be careful about assuming you have 10L of gas or approx. 80km driving distance left when the reserve light comes on.
I know when my light comes on and I fill up, I use almost 50 litres. I don\'t think every sensor can be bang on and say you have 10 litres left.
Try it out for yourself just so you know. You might have 10 or maybe less. It\'s good to know.
if i fill when the lights on,
i get 45L every time!
true say about keeping that in mind when thinking of gas consumption
i feel alot better about my car now,
duh, i shoulda factored that in!
lol
I_KNOW, I_KNOW...You_Know_I wasn\'t pointing you out Majic. I was generalizing. Don\'t want everyone to assume they have 10L. They should double check it and make sure.;)Quote:
Originally posted by majic
that is true.. but b/c i keep track of _my_ mileage i _KNOW_ when my light comes on and i _KNOW_ how much i fill up.. thus i can say i have at least 10L.. and if i \'granny it\' that gives me 80km without a worry.. 110km and i start to sweat.. anything more.. i\'m already dialing for road assistance..Quote:
Originally posted by SABIO
i would be careful about assuming you have 10L of gas or approx. 80km driving distance left when the reserve light comes on.
I know when my light comes on and I fill up, I use almost 50 litres. I don\'t think every sensor can be bang on and say you have 10 litres left.
Try it out for yourself just so you know. You might have 10 or maybe less. It\'s good to know.
shouldn\'t do that. fill up before the light comes on.Quote:
Originally posted by Broli if i fill when the lights on, ...
true say!Quote:
Originally posted by Junior
shouldn\'t do that. fill up before the light comes on.Quote:
Originally posted by Broli if i fill when the lights on, ...
normally i do!
but when i have filled on the light, i have noticed it was a 45L fill!
give me 1 reason..Quote:
Originally posted by Junior
shouldn\'t do that. fill up before the light comes on.Quote:
Originally posted by Broli if i fill when the lights on, ...
wait.. i\'ll give you 4 ANTI-REASONS.. time to debunk these myths
Myth1: low amount of fuel in the tank will cause condensation and gas line freezing.
Reality:: gas lines can freeze even on a FULL tank.. so you\'re screwed if you do and screwed if you don\'t :)
BUSTED
in addition, MOST (if not all) gasoline is blended with ethanol, which acts as an antifreeze (preventing gas lines from freezing).. the companies may market this gasoline as \"winter gas\" \"canadian gas\" etc etc..
Myth2: low amount of fuel in the tank will cause condensation and thus the tank will rust easier/faster
Reality:: OUR cars have plastic/fiberglass tanks.. and last i checked those don\'t rust.. maybe i\'m wrong
PLAUSIBLE but in our case BUSTED
Myth3: low amount of fuel is detrimental to the fuel pump
Reality:: yes, the fuel pump uses gasoline as a lubricant and a coolant, if designed properly this pump will be at the BOTTOM of the tank to use every little last drop of gasoline.
PLAUSIBLE but if designed properly it is BUSTED (can someone verify the location of the pump relative to the tank?)
Myth4: low amount of fuel left in the tank will cause the pump to pick up debris left at the bottom of the tank and destroy the pump/engine/injectors..
Reality:: read Myth3 and Myth2.. the fuel pump DOES pick up gasoline from the bottom of the tank.. in addition there is a filter on the pump to prevent the debris from getting into the chambers.. the miniscule debris that pass through the filter, are small enough that they will vapourize when gasoline is burned.
BUSTED
In theory, the longer you wait to fill up, the lighter your car gets and that can save you some $$ (small savings)
i just did some googling and it\'s funny how a lot of the people just don\'t know any better.. out of all replies there\'s only ONE guy who knows that all the stuff is just a myth.. the rest believe in wives tales ;)
source
more on tank condensation can be found here - a scientific proof ..Quote:
EasyMPG
Message Posted: 12/17/2005 7:12:01 PM
The sediment myth is just that, a myth. The fuel tank pickup IS at the bottom of the tank, so it always sucks fuel in from the bottom of the tank, and that\'s why there are fuel filters on cars to catch any debris.
The detergents in gasoline do a good job of keeping tanks clean, gas tanks, tanker truck tanks, underground gas station tanks, etc. All that crap ends up eventually in your gasoline tank, and that\'s why gasoline detergents are not a really good idea.
there you have it.. QED ;)
Watch out Mythbusters!
Good information as always.
I always thought of the lighter car from less gas in the tank as a race track trick, but over the life of the car, I guess it could save you some money.
Who is the smart one?Quote:
i just did some googling and it\'s funny how a lot of the people just don\'t know any better.. out of all replies there\'s only ONE guy who knows that all the stuff is just a myth.. the rest believe in wives tales
EasyMPGQuote:
Originally posted by Caz
Who is the smart one?Quote:
i just did some googling and it\'s funny how a lot of the people just don\'t know any better.. out of all replies there\'s only ONE guy who knows that all the stuff is just a myth.. the rest believe in wives tales
sorry.. didn\'t quote that properly.. fixed :)
as is the case with anything else you could trust cooter the tow truck driver (or in this case, internet information) or just go into any one of the trusted dealers and ask for their take.
i\'m sure you\'ll find the results rather dissapointing, and the internet guy, not so \"smart\"
I\'m sharing what i\'ve found out after speaking to some of the dealer people that take part in extra curicular activities, so i feel confident that the information is reliable.
I\'m not gonna sway you... in the future I\'ll just keep my knowledge to myself.
oh i should point out that it was \"myth3\" that was discussed.
fair enough.. i\'ll tell you when my fuel pump dies on me.. since the 3 family cars and now one of my own have been treated in the exact same way.. and it sucks, we\'ll never know what happens to the pumps since everyone fills up at 1/2 tank worried they\'ll malfunction..Quote:
Originally posted by Junior
as is the case with anything else you could trust cooter the tow truck driver (or in this case, internet information) or just go into any one of the trusted dealers and ask for their take.
i\'m sure you\'ll find the results rather dissapointing, and the internet guy, not so \"smart\"
I\'m sharing what i\'ve found out after speaking to some of the dealer people that take part in extra curicular activities, so i feel confident that the information is reliable.
I\'m not gonna sway you... in the future I\'ll just keep my knowledge to myself.
unlike you, i use the internet as a tool for searching, research, education.. not JUST pr0n ;) and agreed.. some stories won\'t agree with me but just remember that any joe blow has access to the internet and can post to his heart\'s content.. whether it\'s correct it is up to the educated reader to assess..
when? in the previous post or the one before i posted the myths?Quote:
Originally posted by Junior
oh i should point out that it was \"myth3\" that was discussed.
this is a fairly open ended and inconclusive statement and i chose to explore all potential aspects of it.. next time be more precise :sarcQuote:
shouldn\'t do that. fill up before the light comes on.
the whole point was that the fuel is sucked up from the bottom of the tank (thank gravity for that).. so
1) if ANY debris exist at the bottom of the tank (more dense than gasoline) they are filtered by the FP filter
2) if they are suspended in the gasoline, then they still get filtered no matter where the FP sucks the gasoline from.
and btw, what does \"taking part in extracurricular activities\" have anything to do with it?
and the whole point of this thread is to debate/discuss.. it\'s useless if you take on the attitude \"I\'ll just keep my knowledge to myself\".. if you can\'t take criticism it\'s usually either b/c you know you were wrong or just don\'t really know what the truth is.. as for the trusted dealers, a lot of people (including dealer techs) in the world have \"a notion\" of something and the more they preach it the more they believe it (whether it\'s right or wrong) all i am asking is for PROOF.. that\'s all.. for the time being i don\'t see any VALID claims against waiting till the tank is dry.. maybe i missed something, show me..
i dont have time to quote so i\'ll try to make this easy for anyone to follow
- let us know what happens 3 years down the line. anyone could say ya I ALWAYS waited for all my cars to drain gas before i filled up, but we know that\'s not the case. (as there had to have been 1 or 2 occasions where a long trip required you to take a preventitive approach and top it up)
- being oblivious to the situation doesn\'t mean it doesn\'t happen
- precise? no need, then you wouldn\'t be called majoogle, if you didn\'t research topics for us.
- fuel pump, detrimental, working harder, a fuel pump pumps gas, no? if there\'s little to no fuel to pump then ... (it\'s objectional)
- taking part in extra curricular means, it\'s not Manny the service advisor that sits behid the desk and goes by what he learned off the internet. it came from the guys that race/drag/circuit/autox and would probably know their stuff better than MOST.
- the reason i would choose to keep knowledge to myself, is cause there is no need to prove something to someone that won\'t listen anyway. I don\'t like waisting my time.
- is you need facts, it\'s as easy as picking up the phone and trying to make an appoitment to go in and see all the fuel pumps that needed replacing due to the \"oblivious effect\"
are we done now?
ok, here\'s some real world \"testing\" and not hearsay to add to this...
last car I owned, 2001 Nissan Maxima SE, returned with 79,500kms on the odo...80+ fillups of gasoline with 95%+ having been done with waiting for the gas light to come on...not one problem with fuel delivery...no hard starts...no fuel injector problems...car ran as strong as a ****ing ox
this car, 2004 Mazda3 with 81,500kms on the odo (i\'ve done more than 3 years worth of driving in 19 months, yes)...90+ fillups of gasoline with approx 95%+ having been done with waiting for the gas light to come on...same results as the Maxima, so far ... car runs great
i\'ve got spreadsheets and service records for both cars to back up my claims.
there you have it...2 different cars, both treated the same way...and both filled with Sunoco gas (the Maxima predominantly 94 octane and the 3 87 octane).
Just to add to the debate:
\'97 Jetta GL Diesel with 215,000 kms on it
always ran to near empty (past the point where the light comes on) unless fuel prices dictated I fill up NOW.
Never had a problem with the fuel pump. Of course, I followed the maintenance schedule to replace the fuel filter.
And in case anyone was wondering, I got an easy 750km per 50L of diesel in a 55L tank, 850km if it was 99% highway at 120km/h. And this isn\'t even a TDI.
Now I gotta get used to higher gas prices, lower milage and a smaller trunk in my 3 :D Gotta love the HP though.
Actually Myth #3 is true.
A fuel pump is an impeller type pump. Impeller type pumps require a certain amount of \"head\" (inlet pressure) to operate efficiently. In general the required head (technical term is npshr: net positive suction head required) is designed as low as possible but nontheless an impeller type pump will always have a specific design head greater than zero.
In a fuel tank head is generated by putting the pump at the bottom of the tank. The amount of fuel in the tank creates the static head (static head = fuel density x gravity x fuel height above the pump). The more fuel in your tank, the more head your fuel pump will see.
If you the head of a pump drops below the npshr you will get cavitation, which is a pumps worst nightmare. Cavitation will slowly eat a pumps impeller and cause a great deal of vibration damage (I\'ve seen large pumps where this process wasn\'t so slow). In a fuel pump, which is small and a little more rugged for its application than most, the likelihood of its impeller being eaten by cavitation is low, but there is a good likelihood that vibration caused by cavitation will damage the pumps bearings over time.
Now, I haven\'t been able to find any npshr specifications for a fuel pump so I can\'t say how low you can go before there is a problem. However, the lower you go the more likely you will suffer some cavitation damage, and the more often you go low enough, the more damage you will cause.
Maybe that is why the low-fuel light turns on with ~10L remaining. Of course we are all dickering about a pump that may have been built well or not depending on the $/supplier and Mazda. To date I haven\'t heard of any problems with the fuel-pump and really pay it no mind. Has Mazda (in recent years) ever had a problem with fuel pumps equipped on their vehicles?Quote:
A fuel pump is an impeller type pump. Impeller type pumps require a certain amount of \"head\" (inlet pressure) to operate efficiently
To get this thread back on topic: here is my recent log... measured the proper way!
2004 Sport GT, 5spd.
Date $ L km miles L/100km mpg(m) mpg (I)
5-Dec 42.00 45.70 590.0 365.8 7.75 30.36 36.26
19-Dec 37.11 42.71 536.0 332.3 7.97 29.52 35.25
1-Jan 40.92 43.58 584.0 362.1 7.46 31.52 37.64
16-Jan 43.71 47.25 585.5 363.0 8.07 29.14 34.80
6-Feb 41.70 45.68 560.0 347.2 8.16 28.84 34.43
average 2222.3 2600.0 34761.6 21552.2 7.48 31.45 37.55
Chris
actually there has been a few fuel pump TSBs for the 3 but it only applies to a certain range of VINs.. anyway i\'ll keep doing what i\'m doing and report back when (if) my FP fails..
cstraw, nice numbers yet again.. :)
as some of you may know i\'ve been doing a little test with my 2.3L 5MT .. and yah i don\'t think cstraw is lying b/c those #s are very easy to get :D .. my numbers to come once i throw them in the spreadsheet..
This past monday during the snow storm I was heading back home from school. From Eglinton and warden to 16th and Mc cowan. Took me 2 full hours to get home(usually takes max 40 mins) and found I have used 1 and a half blocks of gas on my gauge. It is only 22 km to get home. On my trip computer while in the traffic it was reading AVG 35L/100km. My first obvious response was \"Holyshit and WTF\"
Does it really use that much gas in traffic?
And no it wo\'nt be because of my exhaust because i\'ve been having readings of 10.5L/100km these 2 days.
Holy Smokes!!!! 35L/100km??? it\'s too much. I was driving from Mississauga to Yonge/Sheppard and it took 1 H 45 M (in normal situation it takes 35 minutes), however it just used half a block of gas (9.8 L/100 KM).Quote:
Originally posted by Pearl_Hatch
This past monday during the snow storm I was heading back home from school. From Eglinton and warden to 16th and Mc cowan. Took me 2 full hours to get home(usually takes max 40 mins) and found I have used 1 and a half blocks of gas on my gauge. It is only 22 km to get home. On my trip computer while in the traffic it was reading AVG 35L/100km. My first obvious response was \"Holyshit and WTF\"
Does it really use that much gas in traffic?
And no it wo\'nt be because of my exhaust because i\'ve been having readings of 10.5L/100km these 2 days.