The U.S, Japan, and Canada? These are are high volume countries, ...anyways it was just a rough estimate. Even if its less, say 600,000 does that change my point?Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMAN
_3
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The U.S, Japan, and Canada? These are are high volume countries, ...anyways it was just a rough estimate. Even if its less, say 600,000 does that change my point?Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMAN
_3
OP would you entertain this?Quote:
Originally Posted by sawatsky
Ya HI, beginning of the thread:
http://www.apa.ca/MazdaEngines.asp
Search hard enough and you'll find others with severe oil burning and blown engines with rods and pistons going through the block including grandmothers.Quote:
Non turbo 2.3L engine on Mazda 3 and 6: 2004-2007
The engine may begin to burn oil seemingly all of a sudden at 80,000 to 100,000 km. The consumer would likely be unaware of the condition unless they check the oil regularly. If the oil drops below 2 litres in the crankcase, intermittent oil starvation begins to occur, typically first at the location of the number 1 connecting rod -- by this time internal damage is severe. If the consumer does not stop driving the vehicle, the rod can fail completely and pierces a whole in the side of the block.
The cause appears to be gradual overheating of the engine, due to 1) an internal defect in the catalytic converter that can plug up over time OR 2) the catalytic convertor plugs up over time from burned oil in the exhaust stream. There may be other causes.
Failures appear more common with the manual transmission, perhaps because crankcase ventilation or some other factor is more affected by the overrun that accompanies gear changes. Used engines are in chronically short supply and expensive. In Montreal some recyclers have stopped selling the engines because they're too troublesome. APA has sourced rebuilt engines for about $3,500 in Montreal (plus installation). APA has recorded about 35 written complaints from consumers and confirmed a high rate of failures with rebuilders. We have not written Mazda directly about this issue, but could do so given the number of complaints.
APA can obtain a below retail price to replace the engine in Montreal, and likely a bit of break at our recommended engine specialist in Toronto. Either shop would be competent to report on the engine damage.
I've seen people parroting the same thing defending the 2.3 on other forums where people had the same oil burning and engine blowing issues. I wouldn't be surprised if mazda hires its own goons to cover up the fault of this engine as i've seen the same bs excuses from dealerships and forum goers defending it only relating it all down to 'poor maintenance'. Dealerships to whom it was brought to their attention same deal.
I've considered this but the car is slow as it is and lacks low end grunt, don't need a screaming weasel on the highway when trying to over take a truck. Considering others have said its much hassle to swap between the two with ECU differences and other factors why downgrade when one could go to a 2.5 instead which is newer and with more low end torque. If going through the hassle might as well have an upgrade. And both engines go for real cheap compared to the now ever aging and overpriced 2.3Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_The_BMXER
The 2.0 doesn't have the same APA reports however so at least one could say its reliable.
Japan didn't sell many 23S Axelas, due to high taxes involved... you got a 300 series license plate instead of a 500 series plate with the 20S model or less, physically showing you are paying way more taxes for just a "mid sized" car... but Mazda did sell them because JDM land is the land of niche marketsQuote:
Originally Posted by Flagrum_3
That is irrelevant. The point here is; there have been enough 2.3 engines built that IF THERE WAS A SERIOUS ISSUE, it would be publicised in the mainstream. Many of the engine failures, I'm sure, could be tracked back to owner neglect. There is also enough 2.3 engines out there with over 200k on them, and still running well, to refute any minor complaints.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMAN
_3
don't know if this is relevant but, my 2.3 has been using up oil since it was at 120k. It uses about 1.2 liters for every 5k oil change intervals
i use synthetic 5w20 since i bought it.
well the engine now has top end noise (valves clicketeering at revs) and burns 2 quarts every gas change. So every time I fill up, I fill up oil too lol.. piece of shit.
I bought my car used at 75k and it was burning a lot of oil. But who knows how the previous owner drove it. Engine never blew, but Mazda replaced it before that happened. Was replaced at 110k. I now have 212k on it and never had a problem with burning oil since.
So I wouldn't say all of the engines are defective.
And it finally died, PIECE OF SHIT.
So now I am trying to source as much info asap on the 2.5
From what I was told on another forum... the fusion motors swap in.. the 2.3 and the 2.5....Sensors need to be swapped, ignition coil needs to be swapped, headers need to be gen 1 (? not confirmed 100%), intake manifold needs to be swapped, otherwise block should fit right in.
Need to figure out flywheel and clutch as well as that needs to be replaced anyway, even last time i swapped engine i was told to do it but i pushed through.. so this time ill do it save on labour.
I wont be doing the work but a shop will so the more info and parts i have on hand the less time spent in shop..
Don't waste your time with a 2.5. It burned more gas then my speed does. Just get a 2.3 or a 2.0. I know you don't want a 2.0 but It is a great motor and it withstood 100k of Beating without any noises or burning oil. Back then I did 8k intervals. I did the timing mod and as stupid as it sounds it gave the car substantial more amount of power. It also helped alot that it was broken in very harsh right from day 1. Also keep in mind that with scrap yard engines there could be internal issues you do not know about. For example, my2.5l had a scrap yard motor in it (long story) and it had timing issues that were not triggering any engine lights but they had codes stored in the memory. My handheld scanners were not good enough to detect the codes though.
Looks like the same shit with the 2.3l fusion:
https://www.google.ca/search?q=ford+...sm=93&ie=UTF-8
I am moving jobs and won't drive as much as I used to, could care less about gas anymore. I've been buy two quarts almost each gas change until the engine just died.
There ARE 2.3l motors with issues... none with 2.0... none with 2.5 that ive come across and the 2.3 issues persist in the fusions (oil consumption).
Just not interested in another 2.3 and not going for a 2.0 the car is as slow as it is, and not getting an msp
Found this piece of information by contacting MSDS about the header differences between gen 1 and gen 2
Quote:
The gen 1- to- gen 2 header differences are locations of the 02 sensors, and a slight clearance divit in the down flex pipe. There is no egr fitting on either
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_ahmed
You should do some research first. Those links you posted are not indicating many issues AT ALL. Hell, the first one was user issue checking the oil "Well...after doing a little research and letting the car sit overnight in the garage, the oil consumption issue is not really an issue. In looking at the owners manual, there is only 1 correct way to insert the dipstick. If it isn't put in the proper orientation, a false reading will result (duh!). On the oil level check this am, it is half-way between the dots. I don't recall where the oil level was when we got it, but it may have been at or near that level. So...lesson learned. Read the owner's manual"
The 2.3L is not known for burning oil. You assume that after reading a few threads. Millions of motors sold, a couple forum posts, and suddenly its an issue thats widespread.
I agree with @midnightfxgt I have a 2008 2.3l Gt and I drive it pretty hard/spirited at times...and although I just passed 110,000k the engine runs like a charm, I get regular oil changes using the recommended standard oil. And no problems yet *knock on wood*
I had done a ton of research on the 2.3 Mazda 3 before I bought it because I wanted to be sure I was getting a reliable car, and I didn't find many complaints (aside from common rust problems, and the passenger rear motor mount)
There is likely some other reason the motors keep blowing other than it being a "POS" motor which it isn't...The fact that you think the car is "slow enough already" And that your main reason for not wanting a 2.0l is that it won't be fast enough gives some decent insight into where the problem could be stemming from...Yes the 3 as fast as a Ferrari, but it isn't a slouch either...it can be a quick little car.
You clicked on one link and that was ironically a 2.5l fusion when in fact it was someone not reading the manual on the dipstick, all the other ones are in fact were burning oil issues for the 2.3l. Anyways 'a few links' sorry but this bullshit about 2.3 motors not having issues is bullshit.
Anyways don't give a damn, not getting a shit 2.3 ever again plus its overpriced. "millions of motors", actually the 2.3 is not that common.
I'm sourcing the info and parts slowly. 2.5 is cheaper to get and newer.
I am at like 160K KM, 60K KM of that is with boost, and no issues.
35 cases called into the APA (not the MILLIONS you claim lol) vs millions of these motors sold, pretty easy math. If it was a REAL issue, you would see pages full in your google search link ;)
http://www.blueovalforums.com/forums...n-ford-fusion/
http://www.fordfusionforum.com/topic...did-my-oil-go/
http://community.cartalk.com/discuss...-fusion-engine
http://www.mazda3forums.com/showthread.php?t=377727
http://www.mazda3forums.com/showthread.php?t=309698
http://www.mazda3forums.com/showthread.php?t=372828
http://www.mazda3forums.com/showthread.php?t=208698
http://www.mazda3forums.com/showthread.php?t=396712
http://www.mazda3forums.com/showthread.php?t=316562
http://www.mazda3forums.com/showthre...=396298&page=2
http://www.mazda3forums.com/showthread.php?t=372543
http://www.mazda3forums.com/showthread.php?t=354716
http://www.mazda3forums.com/showthread.php?t=258894
http://www.mazda3forums.com/showthread.php?t=379064
http://www.mazda3forums.com/showthread.php?t=384609
http://www.mazda3forums.com/showthread.php?t=245059
Anyways I can keep copy pasting threads of engine failures and oil consumption with the 2.3 on and on and on, every single response by everyone is 'oh its not a problem'. For the last ten years almost. Well clearly it is. With people experiencing the same garbage I experienced and everyone including mazda and mazda dealerships in denial.
The 2.0 no problems, 2.3 turbo no problems like it, and the 2.5 no problems either, just the 2.3 on repeat.
Everyone's response over the years "oh i have no problems" well great.
http://www.mazda3club.com/showthread.php?t=56735
All the time the same responses oh i have no problem and i havent seen that many blown motors or no motors that burn oil yet... its always the same. Sorry I don't buy this shit.
It's always undermined and denied but it's all over the net:
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f0cbca4
So many people asking the same questions about oil burning and engine failures and getting the same denials as if mazda has its own trolls to deny this.
Really makes no difference I'm not spending another penny on a 2.3 Two low mileage engines blown with regular 4-5k oil changes and all highway driven.
You don't get it. Thats OK. :)
I guess the 2.5L is riddled with the same problem:
http://www.mazdaforum.com/forum/mazd...3-2-5-a-27273/
http://www.torontomazda3.ca/forum/sh...f-oil-after-4K
Finding a dozen (or even 3!) people/posts with an issue do not indicate an issue. You don;t like the 2.3L, and thats fine. However, spouting off about something as fact, when it is not proven... well, its comical.
-John
^Oh I get it, money pit pile of garbage engine
I've owned so far 10 cars and a dedicated track car, and none gave me as much drama as the mz3.
http://www.aerohill.com/wp/listing/2005-mazda-3-2-3l/
You can find 50 threads. Offset that with the number of units sold, and you still dont have a leg to stand on.
By your theory, the 2.5L has issues too. I posted a couple links. Factor in less of them sold, its about the same LOL.
Anyways, wasted enough time. You want to think there is a problem, knock yourself out :)
I FINALY got all the damn aprts even though i ordered xmas time.
Now about to get engine
but one guy is tleling me while the block will work head will not.
I need some urgent information as to why it wouldnt and what it would take to make work...
possibly the heads will be to tall for the engine bay?
if so, think bmw m3 hood bulge to fix that, or scoop scoop scoop
One of the improvements on the 2.5 engine are the revised heads with bigger valves... so I would hate to use anything else.
One of the things that I intended my mechanic to do from what i read was swap the manifold and sensors off the old engine onto the 2.5 and the oil pan as apparently they are different.
But lets say I was going to use all of it, would all i need then be the engine harness and ecu from a 2010+ mazda3 or fusion?
Im thinking back to the speed3sedan.
He had to have speed USDM specific(american motor) abs sensors/ecu/... to get his motor to turn over
I've found this thread:
http://www.torontomazda3.ca/forum/sh...29#post1144229
It seems swapping between 2.0, 2.3 and 2.5 is pretty common with the mx-5 guys.
Hey bro, what do you mean? This is a 2.3 NA to 2.5 NA swap thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by greyseason
Im just saying you might need to buy 2.5 abs sensor along with the ECU. You might not ber able to just pull the 2.3, drop in the 2.5Quote:
Originally Posted by a_ahmed
Okay so a 2011-2012 Fusion 2.5 non-hybrid 2.5 engine is in my gen 1.
The good stuff:
-There is no need for oil conversion kit as for the 2.3 (which comes standard with the crappy catridge filter), it already comes with the plate for the standard oil filter.
-It was a direct bolt in.
-Oil pan was swapped from 2.3 to the 2.5 block
-Belt tensioner had to be slightly modified and adjusted, slight bit from head shaved for belt to run and not touch.
-All the sensors plugged straight in except for the 'runners' which are missing on the fusion engine.
-Used gen 1 msds header.
-Had to rewire some capacitor (my friend couldn't remember what exactly nothing major)
-Had to rewire temperature sensor
Now the problems and the codes:
We're using the 2.5 intake (which I was advised is better and good for 10hp compared to the 2.3 intake)
-Cyinder 1 and 4 are not firing.
-Extra wiring for runners since there are no runners throw an intake runners code.
-Intake pressure code
-Throttle body TPS circuit A & Circuit B correlation sensor is plugged in throwing a code. The throttle body is different but the old throttle body won't fit on the new intake.
So the codes are mostly due to the new intake and no runners on the new intake. But the major issue I want resolved first is why aren't cylinder 1 and 4 firing? I think if they start firing that it should start running proper.
Oh yes one more thing, had to use the 2010+ o2 sensor, the old one did not work or something like that, what my buddy said.
I can probably guess your problem is with the reluctor wheel on the crank pulley. I am almost positive it is different and that is what could be your firing problem. The intake runners should not effect the starting it running of the car.
Also I believe the throttle codes are related to the throttle pedal. Not The the body. The resistance values may be different between gen 1 and gen 2
i really don't think swapping motors is a good idea because of the problems you can potentially encounter. better just to stick with the stock and if that motor f's off just get another stock. much easier
to late, OP already has the engine in da whipQuote:
Originally Posted by jay93
may be stupid but did you switch plugs / coils from firing cylinders see if the packs could be bad? or take the coil out and off the plug go to turn the car on see if you get spark. again.. the whole wire harness could not have something that is now missing on this engine so its all guess work
The cam on the old 2.3 is 6 tooth which I was told is what it should be otherwise in the 2.5 as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickzgrl
What's happening is there is no Injector pulse on #1 and #4 cylinders, coils are firing. It pulses during crank, once its running doesn't pulse.
Cam and Crank sensors were swapped from 2.3 to 2.5, the crank pulley as well.
Do you have the ability to monitor the cam and crank sensor to see if they drop out all.
If you haven't used a node light to confirm injectors are getting a signal I would start there. Maybe a shit coil in the injector. Otherwise trace the harness back to the pcm. Maybe a bent pin in a connector somewhere
Car is done and driving. Definitely worth it imo. Pulls hard, getting into triple digits faster in lower gears as it seems.
Had to reuse 2.3 intake manfiold, for whateverreason couldn't get the 2.5 intake manifold to work. Also had to swap oil sensor.
I'm also surprised by the MSDS header, its not loud at all, but then I noticed this with all the 2.5 gen 2 motors too. The 2.0 were obnoxiously loud and the 2.3 was too.
I have a 2010 Ford 2.5 swap in Gen1 mz3, runs good.. A bug or two to work out though. Still a newer motor with less k, for less then what I paid for my third 2.3. I'm not knocking the motor, I knew nothing about the said problems or rumours, I'm the first to admit it was my own fault my motors are done. With a header,cbe,cai, it changes the novelty of the car and rolling around at higher revs compared to when car was stock, I know I know these mods have no performance gains ;) just saying they were the cause of my particular story. Yea so I'm happy with the swap, I'm not sure exactly what all was done, and what still needs to be done, motors in, I can drive the 3 again so that's all that matters to me lol plus when I was mentioning costs.. My newer less km 2.5 also had a used $300 cbe for mz3 factored into the price and was still cheaper then any of my 2.3 replacement.