Mazdaspeed3 Dyno - Tag Racecraft

new to the dyno scene. really don't know what's considered "accurate", apples-to-apples, etc, but Mel @ Tag Racecraft is a pro so i trust him & his equipment (tagracecraft.com)

results: kind of what I expected, not all that impressed w/ WHP#'s but torque#'s were ok. reality is, even w/ the TBE, the stock turbo is too small for big results. happy with my ride for the time being, but I'm anticipating the arrival of my COBB AP for some extra punch. At that point, I'll dyno again @Tag. if the AP doesn't cut it, i'll drink CTA Patrique's turbo punch & start the BIG turbo u/g next year. 300WHP someday and i'll rest easy.
i think.

here it is..

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/j...o/IMG_0534.jpg

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/j...o/IMG_0536.jpg

did you start at the same rpm each time?

is ur car stock ?

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Originally Posted by Unoriginalusername

did you start at the same rpm each time?

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honestly, can't recall. i thought i did but i was fussing w/ the steering wheel, gear shifting, listening to him & trying to hit ideal RPM before i hit it. Mel did the final pull so i assumed he did it "right". i'll take this shit w/ a grain of salt

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Originally Posted by MPS

is ur car stock ?

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if it was, my results would've been better:chuckle

u need to find a better dyno place
with real numbers

It will interesting to see another member with MS3 on the same dyno. There are probably over 10 MS3 owners with CPE TBE very similar setup.

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Originally Posted by MPS

u need to find a better dyno place
with real numbers

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u know what, Vlad, that's what i was afraid of. like i said, i'm new to the dyno scene so i just went there cuz u can't beat $30, u have to admit.
he even popped in my SRI (he saw it on my pass seat, just picked it up from Pat before i got dyno'd) for $20. despite the #'s, i left happy.

what's that place you recommend again? i'd like to go there after the upcoming tune.

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Originally Posted by Garu

It will interesting to see another member with MS3 on the same dyno. There are probably over 10 MS3 owners with CPE TBE very similar setup.

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right on. he told me i was the first MPS to get done there. if anyone's interested for comparison's sake, do it. worst case scenario, your #'s suck like mine but it was safe & kinda cool to do the pulls yourself.

i dont have any dyno places that i use my car never saw a dyno
i dont have the need for it i just look at other ppls dyno and there mods and i know im not far off :)

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Originally Posted by REZXPERT

u know what, Vlad, that's what i was afraid of. like i said, i'm new to the dyno scene so i just went there cuz u can't beat $30, u have to admit.
he even popped in my SRI (he saw it on my pass seat, just picked it up from Pat before i got dyno'd) for $20. despite the #'s, i left happy.

what's that place you recommend again? i'd like to go there after the upcoming tune.

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and also dyno is like a crack addiction
if you start you just cant stop :chuckle

What is the problem with the number you got at Tag? I dynoed my last car there and I think the numbers were right on. Don't go seraching around for a dyno that is going to give you higher numbers.

man, dynos are like bodyfat tests: my BF was 8% using one gym's machine,
six months later 22% at another gym, different machine.

moral of the story: eat cheetos if you want 8%BF.

the HP seems a bit low, should that be 250+ on wheel? may be you are using snows that will effect the result? an did they use huge blower pump in the air (big fan is not enough)? i remembered long time ago when i dyno my RX7 when it just swap in a 20B, the shop told me i need a better tire for more accuate numbers.

if my exhaust comes in this week i'll go for a dyno just to see wat the difference would be from the CPE exhaust

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Originally Posted by RX9

the HP seems a bit low, should that be 250+ on wheel? may be you are using snows that will effect the result? an did they use huge blower pump in the air (big fan is not enough)? i remembered long time ago when i dyno my RX7 when it just swap in a 20B, the shop told me i need a better tire for more accuate numbers.

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yeah, i was runnin on my snows but i don't see how that can make up another 20WHP. i'll head back this summer, just out of curiosity.

let me know if any of you are headin there sooner or later.

There is nothing wrong with the dyno... going somewhere else shouldnt make much difference (assuming Dynojet vs dynojet)

-John

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Originally Posted by midnightfxgt

There is nothing wrong with the dyno... going somewhere else shouldnt make much difference (assuming Dynojet vs dynojet)

-John

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i guess it's human nature to get your back up when the car doesn't perform to one's expectations .. esp w/ some mods & listening to mazda throw around '263HP'. my results don't bother me, the car goes:gone like any of you MPSers know, even running stock. with a few more mods, it'll reach it's potential for road-use. at that point, i'll do another dyno and take it in stride again.

it's like guys and their bench press #'s, to use another gym analogy..
(btw, i benched 275 for 3 once:bana2)

The numbers arent bad, but I dont agree with "u need to find a better dyno place
with real numbers". Without some proof backing up that they are using a malfunctioning dyno, no one can really say.

Were the numbers listed STD or SAE corrected? That alone is generally about 4% difference. So if your numbers are SAE, you would most likely see 243WHP. Suddenly sounds better right? ;)

-John

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Originally Posted by midnightfxgt

The numbers arent bad, but I dont agree with "u need to find a better dyno place
with real numbers". Without some proof backing up that they are using a malfunctioning dyno, no one can really say.

Were the numbers listed STD or SAE corrected? That alone is generally about 4% difference. So if your numbers are SAE, you would most likely see 243WHP. Suddenly sounds better right? ;)

-John

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Same mods, dynojet, sae corrected from my pull in the summer so there is a difference. given avg. dyno of stock cars is about 231whp i would say this particular dyno is reading a little low IMO but for $30 it still does what they are meant for... compare gains to baseline etc.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...rs/dyno001.jpg

I deff think his should be higher if thats what most guys are getting, but to say he should go somewhere else is hasty. Like you said, baseline is where its at. Strange to see such a high variance though.

UU - Stupid question, but your car was dyno'd in 4th right?

-John

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Originally Posted by midnightfxgt

UU - Stupid question, but your car was dyno'd in 4th right?

-John

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Yes 4th gear, closest 1:1 without insane wheel speed i think. seems to be most common so i wanted to be able to compare to others

i smell a group dyno

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Originally Posted by REZXPERT

i smell a group dyno

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:chuckle maybe interested in one once ap is in and possibly a tmic or fmic later in the spring :chuckle

I think I will hit the TAG dyno too. I know the previous owner of my kit hit 250WHP at 8PSi, so I should be around that.

-John

I am sure that your results were affected by your snow tires. The softer grooved tires definitely affect results. Go back there with your summer fronts on and I am willing to bet you make at least a minimum of 20 hp more. I have $20 to back my statement. Anybody want to bet? Furthermore, you put the intake on and then dynoed. The computer takes time to reset, learn and adjust mapping for the new intake.

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Originally Posted by Big Dad

I am sure that your results were affected by your snow tires. The softer grooved tires definitely affect results. Go back there with your summer fronts on and I am willing to bet you make at least a minimum of 20 hp more. I have $20 to back my statement. Anybody want to bet? Furthermore, you put the intake on and then dynoed. The computer takes time to reset, learn and adjust mapping for the new intake.

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The rolling mass of winters is less and so long as the diameter is the same i can't see how summers would be any better. Summers would be worse if i had to guess but not sure

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Originally Posted by Big Dad

I am sure that your results were affected by your snow tires. The softer grooved tires definitely affect results. Go back there with your summer fronts on and I am willing to bet you make at least a minimum of 20 hp more. I have $20 to back my statement. Anybody want to bet? Furthermore, you put the intake on and then dynoed. The computer takes time to reset, learn and adjust mapping for the new intake.

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Explain please! Not doubting it, since I dont know, but you have peaked my interest :)

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Originally Posted by Big Dad

I am sure that your results were affected by your snow tires. The softer grooved tires definitely affect results. Go back there with your summer fronts on and I am willing to bet you make at least a minimum of 20 hp more. I have $20 to back my statement. Anybody want to bet? Furthermore, you put the intake on and then dynoed. The computer takes time to reset, learn and adjust mapping for the new intake.

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Big Dad, i won't bet against you. i'm goin back w/ the summers on - whether or not it made a difference - but like UU, i'm headin back w/ the AP... as you can tell by my sig, i'm pretty high on it:chuckle

all this info helps me... & my ego. thanks guys

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Originally Posted by REZXPERT

Big Dad, i won't bet against you. i'm goin back w/ the summers on - whether or not it made a difference - but like UU, i'm headin back w/ the AP... as you can tell by my sig, i'm pretty high on it:chuckle

all this info helps me... & my ego. thanks guys

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or maybe my car just makes 35 more whp then yours LOL :chuckle :gone

i just smoked a 300C with HEMI yesterday, lol....that guy was totally pissed.

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Originally Posted by Unoriginalusername

or maybe my car just makes 35 more whp then yours LOL :chuckle :gone

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that's b/c that bottle under your seat is Nitro, me, JD's.

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Originally Posted by REZXPERT

that's b/c that bottle under your seat is Nitro, me, JD's.

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no guessing at my secret mods on order :chuckle

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Originally Posted by midnightfxgt

Explain please! Not doubting it, since I dont know, but you have peaked my interest :)

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I assume that you are refering to the tires.

I am basing this on my experience with motorcycle racing. The National series abides by a dyno enforced hp cap. Therefore we dyno quite a fair bit to get as close as we can to the limit without going over (we also use a dyno jet dyno). The performance (summer) tires we use are either slicks or dots that resemble slicks with a couple of minimal grooves to meet the dot standard. We also use rains (similar to winters) which are very soft and have lots of groves and tread depth. The slicks/dots connect with the drum and do not have much drive loss. The grooved rains loose traction and have drive loss due to their flexibility and constantly adjusting "footprint." Basicaly, there is something soft and mushy between the wheel and the dyno drum. Typically we see a difference of 10% loss with the rains. Some teams take advantage of this and map for more power in the rain knowing that they will still stay under the limit.

Snow tires are similar, therefore that explains my confidence in my statement.

I think the weight difference of steelies would offset any difference in the compound, and honestly in 4th gear with two widder tires with an lsd i can't see it making as much difference on a car as it would on a bike

The MS3 stock wheels and tires weigh 44.5 pounds each. I do not use steele winter wheels so I do not know what they weigh, but I would assume more depending on tire size and if you went with a 16'' or 17". I smell a bet coming lol:chuckle. Let us meet up at the dyno on Saturday and find out who is right!

thats what i been told, use higher performence tire for the dyno and get closer reality numbers on wheel, anyway, theres only speed3 dyno done in this forum, theres really nothing to compare with. but hey, as long as we still get the power from the snail, we should be powerful enough. i should buy the AP this time.

Hmmmm... I was half debating bringing 2 summers and doing a before and after run for you guys. BUT... I stripped my tuner key in the fall... so screw that lol!

-John

if we fast fwd'd a month, i'd seriously head back to Tag w/ my summers on b/c both you guys sound pretty sure of yourselves. not to undermine you both but i'm gonna give Mel @ Tag a call tomorrow and run your theories by him as he's done a tonne of dynos on all kinds of cars, street & race. i'll let you know.