Oil Information Thread

There seem to be many questions found in various posts regarding oils. I have been researching this a lot lately and thought I would post some information. If you have any additional information that is not opinion based please post it. I hope this may help anyone with questions regarding oil.

I don't want this to turn into an opinion based thread.

API Classifications & SAE Viscosity Standards:

This is what the American Petroleum Institute uses to meet the car manufacturer’s requirements for oil.

At the top you of the symbol will see the API service category. The “S” designation means the oil is certified for gasoline engines…the 2nd letter is for the year(s) the service category is valid. The current categories are SL, and SM…the good news is the categories are backwards compatible. Here is the difference between the two;

SL API oil rating 2004
zinc = 0.110%, 1100ppm
phosphorous = 0.100%, 1000ppm

SM API oil rating 2005
zinc = 0.087%, 870ppm
phosphorous = 0.080%, 800ppm

Difference being less ZDDP (Zinc dithiophosphates) in the newest SM rating, which was found to harm catalytic converters over time.

At the bottom you may see the term “Energy Conserving”. Use of this oil will help with the fuel consumption of the engine. Typically, you will see it on the lighter weight multi-grade oils (i.e. 5W-30). To qualify as “Energy Conserving,” an engine oil must improve fuel economy in laboratory tests by at least 1.5% when compared with a reference oil. If the improvement is 2.7% or more, the oil can be labeled “EnergyConserving II.”

In the middle is the SAE viscosity. The 1st number is the oil’s cold flow viscosity at 40 deg C, the “W” means the oil meets SAE low temperature requirements of the 1st number, the last number is the oil viscosity at 100 deg C. An oil is rated for viscosity by heating it to a specified temperature, and then allowing it to flow out of a specifically sized hole. Its viscosity rating is determined by the length of time it takes to flow out of the hole. If it flows quickly, it gets a low rating. If it flows slowly, it gets a high rating. SAE viscosity rating system applies to both conventional and synthetic oils.
The International Lubricant Standardization and Approval Committee (ILSAC) also have standards for motor oil. Their latest standard, GF-4 was approved in 2004. A key test is the Sequence IIIG, involves running a GM 3.8L V6 at 125 horsepower, 3600 rpm, and 150°C oil temperature for 100 hours. These are much more severe conditions than any passenger car would see. The IIIG test is about 50% more difficult than the previous IIIF test, used in GF-3 and API SL oils.

API Base Stock Groups:

Lubricant base stocks are categorized into five groups by the API:

Group I base stocks are composed of fractionally distilled petroleum which is further refined with solvent extraction processes to improve certain properties such as oxidation resistance and to remove wax. These oils are no longer very common and should never be used in an automotive engine.

Group II base stocks are composed of fractionally distilled petroleum that has been hydrocracked to further refine and purify it. These oils comprise many of the single grade motor oil you see on the shelf.

Group III base stocks have similar characteristics to Group II base stocks, except that Group III base stocks have higher viscosity indexes. Group III oils are produced by further hydrocracking of Group II base stocks, or of hydroisomerized slack wax. Manufacturers label Group III oils as standard motor oil or as synthetic in the US for marketing purposes. It depends on the level of refinement and additive pack. The ACEA in Europe does not allow a Group III oil to be labeled as “synthetic”.

Group IV base stocks are polyalphaolefins (PAO). These were the 1st synthetic oils produced.

Group V is a catch all group for any other synthetic base stocks. Examples of Group V base stocks include polyol esters (POE), polyalkylene glycols (PAG oils), and perfluoropolyalkylethers (PFPAEs). In addition, base stocks using Fischer-Tropsch-synthesis (gas-to-liquid) fall in this group.

POE oils are the most common Group V oils (Red Line for example), in fact, POE oils are used for lubrication in jet turbines and are some of the best oils available. All the Group V oils represent the latest in petroleum technology. But, just because oil is classified as Group V doesn’t mean that it’s better….Group V oils are simply synthetics that are not PAO based.

Synthetic vs. Mineral Oil:

The million dollar question

Especially with companies selling Group III oils in the US as “synthetic”, but does it really matter? Any Group III being sold as synthetic is highly refined and has a robust additive pack. If you buy almost any SL or SM rated oil and change it every 5000 mile, your motor will run well and last likely longer than you own it. What really bugs me is the prices they charge for oil that is not a true synthetic…if I’m going to use a synthetic oil, I want to get what I’m paying for.

PAO or ester based oil is best for a turbo car. Synthetics resist high temperatures (like in a turbo center section) much better before they begin to break down. They also resist “coking” better than a mineral oil, making the use of a turbo timer less important. If you are picky about your engine, especially a turbo motor, you want to use a true synthetic.

Synthetic oil has higher purity and excellent mechanical properties at extremes of high and low temperatures. The molecules in synthetic oil are a uniform size and are engineered to be large enough and "softer" to retain good viscosity at higher temperatures. At the same time the molecular structure is branched…this interferes with solidification and therefore allows flow at lower temperatures.

The viscosity of a synthetic oil still decreases as temperature increases, but have a much improved viscosity index over traditional petroleum base. Their engineered properties allow a wider temperature range at higher and lower temperatures and often include a lower pour point and higher flash point. You will often see that synthetic oils have a lower viscosity in grade when compared to mineral oil in the same SAE viscosity…they tend to be thinner.

Synthetic oil viscosity changes much less with temperature, reducing the need for viscosity index improvers that are used with petroleum based oils. Viscosity index improvers are the oil components most vulnerable to thermal and mechanical degradation as the oil ages through use. Because these synthetic oils have little or no viscosity improver content, they do not degrade as quickly as traditional motor oils.

Like conventional oil, synthetics still fill up with particulate matter, so the oil filter must still be changed periodically. The ability of any oil, including synthetics, to resist oxidation from combustion by-products decreases over time. Synthetic oil (PAO or ester based) can easily handle change intervals as long as 12,000 miles….I would change the filter every 4000 miles and do oil analysis to be on the safe side when using an extended change interval.

Here are the commonly found oils that are true synthetics sold in the US:
Red Line
Royal Purple
Amsoil
Castrol European Formula (aka German Castrol)…only comes in 0W-30, sold at AutoZone.
There are others...this is not an all inclusive list.

How about the others marketed as synthetic?

Mobil 1 was PAO based (Group IV) until recently…it’s been confirmed that at least two of their oils have been switched to Group III. Mobil 1 EP 5W-30 and 15W-50. Since these are Mobil’s top-of-the-line, I suspect their remaining oils have done the same.

Pennzoil Platinum switched from a gas-to-liquid synthetic base to Group III

All the Castrol SynTec oils are Group III, except the German Castrol mentoned above.

All Valvoline and Quaker State oils are Group III

Jdub on another web site was responsible for most of the research and information written above. I have posted it here with added material in the hopes that it might help someone out there make better informed decisions on oil.

Excellent information!

I am going to sticky this post. Hopfully it will alleviate some of the same questions coming up over and over again. Good Job!

-John

Post based on MajesticBlueNTO's post

A Tool that lists most oil standards in graph form

Oil standards that manufacturers claim they meet:
Castrol
Royal Purple
Motul
Amsoil 0w30
Amsoil 0w20
Other Amsoil
Pennzoil Platinum Full Synthetic

Discussion specific to MS3's:

http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...eed-3-iyo.html

An article found through the above thread. It's a few years old now but still a good read, even though the end is filled with a Royal Purple ad.

http://www.belgarage.com.au/resources/oils.pdf

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mazda3X2

An article found through the above thread. It's a few years old now but still a good read, even though the end is filled with a Royal Purple ad.

http://www.belgarage.com.au/resources/oils.pdf

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the article pretty much said, all oils suck except for royal purple....
I'm skeptical until there are sources that have the same conclusion.
although, the person that replied your e-mail is right. I still need to go dig through sites to see if the oils actually meet those standards

True it did seem biased although it was carried out by an independant magazine. However they did rate the "Penrite" and "Valvoline" very highly.

I would like to see something like this done again with current oils including Amsoil and PP.

Mobil 1 Extended Performance 5w-20 info

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Originally Posted by Fuman

Mobil 1 Extended Performance 5w-20 info

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Link is not working.

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Originally Posted by Bai

Link is not working.

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two years late, but here you go:
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...nce_5W-20.aspx

Has anyone used Eneos Synthetic 0w20?

I got a great deal on it so I used it, car is running great. Better than with stock oil from the factory. Fuel milage is much better too. (302km for the first 14 tank)

http://www.eneos.us/product/1

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kessly Snipes

Has anyone used Eneos Synthetic 0w20?

I got a great deal on it so I used it, car is running great. Better than with stock oil from the factory. Fuel milage is much better too. (302km for the first 1/4 tank)

http://www.eneos.us/product/1

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edited.

heard good things about eneos, but not much though because it is an obscure brand here and is generally expensive... there's a few posts here and there on the BITOG forums

idemitsu is the factory fill I'm very sure

Can anyone say if this oil is better then Amsoil and compare the two 0w20 Weights....They have an eneos brand and a Statina or somthing similar brand ??

I just want to give a fair warning that if you are impatient, or, you do not like educating yourself with the simple act of reading, you should probably go end yourself. jk.

This is a LOT to read, and you will need to read all of it in order to get the whole picture.

For those who are interested, the following links/articles will break apart the mysticism which is oil and how the lubricant functions in your car. It breaks common myths about oil and oil weights, informing you as to which oil is best for your application.

Please first go to the following link from 'Bob is the Oil Guy'
He explains why thinner oil is better than thicker oil, why synthetic oil is better than mineral oils.
He also gives you a little exam so that you can clarify for yourself as to what you had already read.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/motor-oil-101/

After having a primary understanding for the fundamental principles of oil lubrication, here is a breakdown as to the types of oil you can choose and their rated performance. This thread was contributed by another automotive forum with members bearing a significant race heritage in addition to engineering knowledge.

http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=30483

I learned quite a bit with this reading material and I thought I would share it with all of you.

Cheers

K, so I read through most of this thread, as well as the bob is the oil guy stuff.

What I got from all of this is that the Penzoil Platinum 5w-20 oil I am using is a good quality group III oil that is not a bad choice for my engine.

But if I want to slightly improve my gas mileage, reduce engine wear at start up and get slightly better performance I should go with a 0w-20 group IV oil like Amsoil or Royal Purple.

I also don't drive my engine very hard, and it's mostly highway 80kph kinda stuff so I tend to change out my oil and filter every 8-9k kms.

Following this practice, I should get improved performance and longer engine life out of what I have,

Correct? :pop

Hey recently i went to dealer for an oil change and i was told that because of power outage they cant give me regular oil so they change the oil with synthetic. Since i have lifetime free oil change so i didnt have to pay anything. Now my questions next time ill go obviously they will give me regular oil so is it okay to go back and forth like this? Also how can i check if they gave me synthetic or not? Thx

I don't think you can check the actual oil and tell if it's synthetic.

Assuming your car uses Dino oil, putting in synthetic wont hurt anything and you can go back and forth without a problem.

It's fine to go back and forth. You can check through an oil analysis, but its not worth it to pull it out and then send/pay for a company to review it.....unless your wanting more technical issues, like the amount it shears and wears over time.

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Originally Posted by Mr Wilson

It's fine to go back and forth. You can check through an oil analysis, but its not worth it to pull it out and then send/pay for a company to review it.....unless your wanting more technical issues, like the amount it shears and wears over time.

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is it safe to assume like an average wear time? I.e dont go over 3000km?
like im a bit over my oil change km because i couldnt get in last week and with all the driving i did tis weekend. I called and told the dealership i would be over, and they said since my cars driven often it should matter. Thing is, i noticed my mileage is shittier and pick up is groggy. Anyway just curious as to how 'good' the synthetic is they use in my car

Thanks for your replies. Also how can i check if the oil was even changed or not? I just dont trust my dealership as they have lied to me before.

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Originally Posted by greyseason

is it safe to assume like an average wear time? I.e dont go over 3000km?
like im a bit over my oil change km because i couldnt get in last week and with all the driving i did tis weekend. I called and told the dealership i would be over, and they said since my cars driven often it should matter. Thing is, i noticed my mileage is shittier and pick up is groggy. Anyway just curious as to how 'good' the synthetic is they use in my car

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The synthetic stuff is way better than any regular oil, the difference is night and day.

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Originally Posted by kaboose

Thanks for your replies. Also how can i check if the oil was even changed or not? I just dont trust my dealership as they have lied to me before.

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Your car have a dipstick?

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Originally Posted by Fack_Dude

The synthetic stuff is way better than any regular oil, the difference is night and day.

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We'll my cars always had synthetic. It's just is their a rule of how many km past your oil change? I'm almost at 2000 but getting it changed Wednesday

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Originally Posted by Fack_Dude

The synthetic stuff is way better than any regular oil, the difference is night and day.

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Lol riiiiiight, because most of the synthetics we have readily available here are actually full synthetics?

Keep the intervals low and it really does not matter what the f goes in it as long as it is 30-40 weight.

Look at Rotella, it is NOT a full synthetic.

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Originally Posted by loki

Your car have a dipstick?

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yes

Regarding my previous post. I'm going to look at my dipstick to see what the oil looks like today. I know it won't be clean/yellowish but what SHould it look like after 9500km?

You haven't changed your oil in 9500km? Isn't the service interval 8000km? It's going to be brown and dirty at 9500.

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Originally Posted by SomeGuy

You haven't changed your oil in 9500km? Isn't the service interval 8000km? It's going to be brown and dirty at 9500.

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Yeah it is, but couldn't get in last Wednesday at Forbes. Then I drove to Brownsville and Oshawa this weekend lmso. I called the dealership on Wednesday and let him know what's up ( and so they knew) and he said with all my driving I should be good. I just feel bad but Wednesday isn't far I guess. I'll take a pic of the dip stick. Maybe ill Judmst get it changed tonight if it's bad

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Originally Posted by standsideways

Lol riiiiiight, because most of the synthetics we have readily available here are actually full synthetics?

Keep the intervals low and it really does not matter what the f goes in it as long as it is 30-40 weight.

Look at Rotella, it is NOT a full synthetic.

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Shell promotes it as a full synthetic (T6 that is).

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/09/24/8y9yba7a.jpg


Not black, or atleast not nearly as black as I thought. Will update with another pic once insidehttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/09/24/ne3u4a8e.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/09/24/3y6uzeqy.jpg

Not so bad eh? Can't wait to get it changed out though

You should see a doctor about that ^^

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Originally Posted by greyseason

Regarding my previous post. I'm going to look at my dipstick to see what the oil looks like today. I know it won't be clean/yellowish but what SHould it look like after 9500km?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by SomeGuy

You haven't changed your oil in 9500km? Isn't the service interval 8000km? It's going to be brown and dirty at 9500.

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oil colour isn't an indication of the condition of the oil. you can have brown/black oil after 1000 kms which means that the oil is doing its job in holding deposits in suspension. unless you do an analysis, you wouldn't know the life expectancy of the oil.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr Wilson

Shell promotes it as a full synthetic (T6 that is).

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T6 is a Group III syn, just like the Pennzoil Platinum and Ultra (also made by Shell). Nothing wrong with that nowadays as there are some Group III (synthesized from refined crude basestock) that perform as well as Group IV and V.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SomeGuy

You should see a doctor about that ^^

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lmao no its snot coming from my nose

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr Wilson

Shell promotes it as a full synthetic (T6 that is).

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That sounds familar. My dealer told me that the synthetic they used is a shell brand

Annnnnd go.

Ahh thanks Wilson.

So my question is, I've gone over my 8000km oil change interval. Pics above are from my oil today. As majestic has pointed out to me, oil colour has no bearing on how 'old' it is. So I've noticed my mileage is poorer, as well as the car feels a little sluggish. Both are signs of work oil. I'm getting it changed tomorrow but still need to drive roughly 200km. I've always had my oilchanged before 8000km, an at a dealership everytime. (Ill do my own once outta warranty)

How bad is too bad regarding engine oil? Mines synthetic 5W-20

What can happen with old oil?

My car gets Drivin daily <- does that really matter? I ask cause I let the dealership know what's up and he said that I should be good since I drive so often. Thanks in advanced!

Why is Dufferin Mazda saying if I put Synthetic in My MS3
they will void my warranty?