I am curious has anyone done it?
As far as I know the transmission mounting and the blocks themselves are identical between the 2.0, 2.3, 2.5 and 2.3turbo motors? Is it not?
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I am curious has anyone done it?
As far as I know the transmission mounting and the blocks themselves are identical between the 2.0, 2.3, 2.5 and 2.3turbo motors? Is it not?
i would think it could be done. i dont think anyone has done it. not that i have heard.
if yarnbah got a speed3 engine and trans running in a sedan then you will have no issue gettin a 2.5 to work....but are you willing to spend the man hours and the money to make it work?
The 2.3 liter is a piece of shit engine, I threw a rod through the block last year and the engine was eating oil. The newly swapped engine is eating oil too. These engines SUCK and I have gone all over the internet with people reporting how they eat oil faster than fuel. One guy mentions 1.5liters per 1000 kilometers. All these guys regular driving, regular interval oil changes with synthetic at 5000km, some even earlier. Etc...
Everyone says the same thing, mazda denies any fault with the engine design, APA has thousands of reports on these engines blowing, consuming oil even with grandma driving, etc...
It seems no one seems to have these issues with the 2.3liter turbo, the 2.0 NA and the 2.5 NA... only the POS 2.3 NA.
Also from what I've seen the ancient 2.3l NA costs 2000~ while the 2.0 and 2.5 can be had for <1000 some even have been lucky to find them for under 500 bux. Go figure...
Doable. Not sure if time and effort would be worth it. Why not put a speed engine in instead? Then the optio. To turbo is there.
So pissed at Mazda and their lying out their ass, I know from last year I'm not the only one with the issue, I googled and went through many forums even stateside with the same issues reported, rod bearing failure, rod knock, complete engine failure, burning oil, starvation, etc....:
http://www.apa.ca/MazdaEngines.asp
Don't get me wrong the car is great, good chassis, good handling, good interior, beautiful exterior. But the engine sucks.Quote:
Non turbo 2.3L engine on Mazda 3 and 6: 2004-2007
The engine may begin to burn oil seemingly all of a sudden at 80,000 to 100,000 km. The consumer would likely be unaware of the condition unless they check the oil regularly. If the oil drops below 2 litres in the crankcase, intermittent oil starvation begins to occur, typically first at the location of the number 1 connecting rod -- by this time internal damage is severe. If the consumer does not stop driving the vehicle, the rod can fail completely and pierces a whole in the side of the block.
The cause appears to be gradual overheating of the engine, due to 1) an internal defect in the catalytic converter that can plug up over time OR 2) the catalytic convertor plugs up over time from burned oil in the exhaust stream. There may be other causes.
Failures appear more common with the manual transmission, perhaps because crankcase ventilation or some other factor is more affected by the overrun that accompanies gear changes. Used engines are in chronically short supply and expensive. In Montreal some recyclers have stopped selling the engines because they're too troublesome. APA has sourced rebuilt engines for about $3,500 in Montreal (plus installation). APA has recorded about 35 written complaints from consumers and confirmed a high rate of failures with rebuilders. We have not written Mazda directly about this issue, but could do so given the number of complaints.
APA can obtain a below retail price to replace the engine in Montreal, and likely a bit of break at our recommended engine specialist in Toronto. Either shop would be competent to report on the engine damage.
Swapping in a turbo engine would be more money than wanted I think plus more gas useage. I would have to investigate it bit more but that would mean engine, turbo, accessories, intercooler, 6spd transmission, ecu, I'm sure other stuff too.
if you get a donor car the swap will be much easier. may cost a bit more since yu have a complete car.
but its all the small things you dont think of. crank sensors. crank pulley. harnesses. pjb. pcm. ingnition cyl.
cluster.
those all add up.
labour is not rly to big of an issue if you can do yourself.
worst part of the speed3 swap was wiring and axle shafts. fairly simple otherwise.
as for the 2.3.... i would say the main problem they have is the balance shaft cassette. they always spin #2-3 which is where the casette is. im not saying its the problem but from what i see, looks like a possibility.
+1 on donar car. That also means parts galore and you can make money off that too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickzgrl
Pathetic:
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f0cbca4
So since I already invested in this stupid car (and it's great other than the pos engines), it is worthwhile swapping to a 2.5. I just want the NA for reliability and daily driving. I have a track car for hooligan action and speed although the turbo would be fun.Quote:
ul 05, 2012 (9:38 am)
I recently purchased a 2005 Mazda 3 with 110,000km on it. It was clean and well taken car of inside and out. It was maintained regularly by the first Owner at the dealership per the Mazda Service Schedule. All service records came with the car. I had it checked out before I bought it and did a thorough self maintenance check on everything at about 110,800km.
At 112,300km I noticed an engine noise that led me to believe it could be a sticky valve or lifter so I immediately checked the oil. It was down 3 quarts (this in the less than 1500km I had driven since I performed the self check) with not a drop of oil under the engine or any smoke from the exhaust.
After a visit to the dealership I found out that running it so low on oil threw a bearing in the crankshaft and as a consequence I am now in the process of replacing the engine.
After speaking with the service manager I discovered that the 2.3 engines are known to suddenly start burning oil without any warning or evidence, as much as 1 litre every 500km. Searching through numerous on-line forums I confirmed that it's a prevalent issue with an abnormally high percentage of these cars, some having experienced the problem as early as 80,000K. The apparent cause is a collapsed oil seal inside the engine and the only solution to address the oil consumption, according to the service dept (outside of an outright engine replacement as it's too costly to fix) is to change to heavier oil. This will slow the rate of consumption but it won't stop it. The 2.0 and 2.5 engines do not seem to have this problem.
Mazda Corp apparently knows about this (the service department I deal with told me that numerous delerships across the country have brought it forward to them) but fails to recognize there is an issue. What puzzled me most is that when looking into the cost of a replacement engine, the Mazda factory rebuilt engine was only warranted for 1 year or 20,000K when all their other engines are warranted similar to what would be provided on a new car power train.
I am not laying blame on anyone anyone but myself for my predicament. Had I checked the oil every fill-up, as is recommended, I would have a car that burns oil but would not have had to replace the engine; however, IMHO, any vehicle made in the last 10 years with less than 200K on the odometer, and maintained regularly, should not be burning oil at all, let alone at the rate I and many other owners have experienced.
Heads up to all owners with Mazda 2.3L engines.
So how about we all start discussing and gathering information on this swap? Whatever I find I'll post in here and likewise if others can find.
I've been thinking about this for a while as well, just wondering if the harness for the engine and the computer can be saved or would you have to transfer everything from the 2.5
from experience with helping get the speed3 sedan running yu will need a lot of electrical. first big issue would be dealing with a pcm and if the pcm has to be changed then yu WILL HAVE to change the pbj to a gem.
those would be your biggest issue.
im not fimiliar enought to say that yes a 2.5 will run off 2.3 pcm.
from the speed i no the issue would be with timing, crank sensor and the reluctor wheel on the pulley.
the crank will control spark. so wrong set up = no spark.
if you out the 2.5 i would put the 6spd manual instead of the 5spd.
only thing would be checking cv shafts. one may be longer or shorter from gen1 to gen2
if anyone else has ideas or can confirm anything ive said.
im sure i can check pt# and answer a few questions.
Heh... yeah. I have some experience with an engine blowing (2006 GT 2.3 5MT, 100K) because it suddenly started consuming oil like no tomorrow.
No direct experience with the matter, but I believe most all what you said sounds reasonable. It would seem unless the OP can find the complete system components from a wrecker, it would be a costly and difficult situation to achieve. Especially the fact that the PCM and PBJ would need changing out, which in all probability would have to be.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickzgrl
_3
Thanks for that confirmation on what she had already typed out. I wasn't quite sure what she was saying, you were really able to nail it home. Thanks!Quote:
Originally Posted by Flagrum_3
_H
Does the 2010 2.5 mazda 3 only have one computer? I've been looking around and I keep finding various differently ECUs/ECMs/etc... going by different names and looking different, some have a black casing, some have a silver casing, etc...
Also newer 2010-2013 ford fusion 2.5 engines go for cheap. Sounds like a no brainer, 2.3 engines that are POS costing 2000-3000 from a junkyard is a rip off.
I really hope we get the ball moving on this. I want to swap my pos 2.3 (that i swapped in since the engine blew last year) hopefully within this year.
Just trying to gather info...
I am guessing ECU, wiring harness may play a role as others have mentioned.. headers, but those could probably be swapped or I could get MSDS headers which i want to anyway.
If I got a 2010-2013 ford fusion ECU and engine wire harness that should be good enough alongside the complete engine block?
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_ahmed
I dont wanna rain on your parade but think about this.....
The cluster is its moudule. The gem module (all your lights and interior stuff). Pcm. Sas module (airbag). Ignition cylinder if its a gt push start.
All those r mazda only. How are you to hook a ford pcm to run those items. I no the cars are very similar but i doubt it will swap that easy.
And another one...
Sarcasm noted. I was, for the benefit of the OP just backing up the previous comment. Now do you have anything positive to add, or you just like trolling and adding useless comments? and I am quite sure you probably still don't understand the situation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyperion
_3
An mz3 does not have a push start its a 2006Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickzgrl
:facepalmQuote:
Originally Posted by a_ahmed
i didnt say the 06 did.
if you cant use the 2.3 pcm you need a 2.5 one.
i you get 2.5 gt it has push start. it wont work without the button.
but you can get the 2.5L from a 2010+ sport GS that has the key start and not push button, as the 2.5L in the GT sedan or GT hatch has the push button. either way if you get a 2.5 you would need the pcm for the vehicle as i could only imagine what program changes and tune may be different from a 2.3L to the 2.5LQuote:
Originally Posted by Nickzgrl
not really.
a 2.5 is just a bit bigger rotating assembly.
most parts from a 2.3 are the same as a 2.5
Not really what? You wouldn't be able to. Or I would be surprised to know you could tune the pcm from a 2.3 to the 2.5 as I would suspect they have a different part number and im sure apart from the software it would be set up sightly different. But try it with the 2.3l pcm. Would be interesting to see if it would take the program and if it would even work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickzgrl
if your worried about fuel consumption, just forget going this route. the 2.5l is a gas guzzler pretending to be a fuel econobox engine.
ill be doing research this week.
ill try to find out everything i can abt the swap then post it up.
i leave for holidays soon so may be in a couple weeks.
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by MZ3-Kiyomi_17
waaaa
wonder why the 2.3l burns oil? because everyone that had theirs blew up used the recommended 5W20 piss.... better CAFE numbers for mazda at the expense of increased engine wear and oil consumption.... mazda/ford doesn't care because they knew during their cost analyses that the failure rates during warranty would be low and that they don't care after the warranty expires.... they want you to buy more cars anyway, which is why new cars aren't built as well as the japanese cars of the 90s..... planned obsolescence!
run the proper oil it was designed for since new (5W30 or better), and it's rock solid
^I've already been using 5w30 on the old engine that blew and on the new engine i swapped in. I in fact switched to 5w40 more than half a year ago or however long it's been now I can't remember.
One guy has already swapped a 2.5 into his 1st gen mz3 but doesn't seem to detail totally everything as to what he swapped or didn't and what he used. Seems like he used the 2.5 flywheel and header but had to modify exhaust slightly cut:
http://www.mazda3forums.com/showthread.php?t=387711
Either way I am doing this rather than getting another car, I'm still fricking making payments on this pos... again it's a great car with a pos engine. So this is worth it instead of another 2.3 or downgrading to a 2.0 which will probably as much work as with the 2.5 or worse yet doing an ms3 swap which will cost lots more and be even more work.
Exsqueeze me?Quote:
Originally Posted by MZ3-Kiyomi_17
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8503/8...165b1bef7c.jpg
Haha!
First using 5w-40 in your 2.3 might have been a little too much. 5w30 is probably the thickest you should go, if you consider the close engine tolerances and small oil passages, you could have been starving certain areas of the engine of oil due to low flow.Quote:
Originally Posted by a_ahmed
Why not just spend the cash and get another 2.3 and use synthetic 5w30 in the new one? It'll save alot of headaches and possible future issues.
_3
why the hell would i waste another penny on another overpriced piece of shit 2.3 I already swapped to a 2.3 last year after the other one blew up and have been using 5w30 since i got it, but upped to 5w40.
Worst money pit car ever. the 2.3 liter engine sucks. Didn't you read anything that was posted earlier...
I'm not getting another 2.3 only to have the same crap happen AGAIN. Damn mazda and their denial that there ever was anything wrong with this engine. LOL at save headaches.
I'm still paying for the damn car since i bought it from a dealership... THINKING buying a new car or at least a very low mileage car (123k) will save me money problems in the long term... which it didn't and cost me even more and isn't even paid off yet. Last year 3600$ on 60-80k engine 2008 2.3 engine (i forget now) and labour. Money pit over a money pit. But since the only problem with this car is it's garbage engine quality and reliability I am trying to safeguard whatever money was wasted by keeping the car and not wasting more money on the same garbage 2.3 engine. Money doesn't grow on trees and I am not overflowing to be pissing it away when I need a reliable car and this one isn't even paid off yet.
2.5 engine or nothing. Or I blow it up to smiteriness myself with gasoline and get a 500$ car instead that will have a more reliable engine.
I'm angry at the thought of the 2.3's existence. The car is good but the engine sucks and I want to swap in the 2k10+ 2.5liter engine in instead.
Read the reports and links I gave you. "poor maintenance my ass" the oil burning and engines blowing has been happening to babyd grandma drivers. So please... mazda and their bs that nothing is wrong with it only 'poor maintenance' YEAH RIGHT. 5k or less oil changes with amsoil synthetic always.
get a 2.0
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by sawatsky
Yes I did read all the posts and everything. Now if you want to be nasty, let me give you my honest thoughts. You've blown two engines, I haven't heard of the 2.3 blowing in excessive amounts, my 2.3 runs like a clock, burns no oil @ 210k. Just possibly the problem could be you, or more precisely stated, your driving habits. The 2.3 is not a bad motor per say.Quote:
Originally Posted by a_ahmed
_3
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by Flagrum_3
I left out any input on this thread based on the rants against the 2.3L. If someone can be so short sighted into thinking that some reports of blown engines equals a serious defect on one of the best selling cars, they are delusional. Come back, and give us a factual report based on number of cars sold vs number of engines blownup, and you would have more credibility. Wait another year or two, and I bet I can dig up posts of blown 2.5L.... its the internet. People bitch. Motors are not perfect, from any manufacturer.
-John
The 2.3 engine isn't bullet proof and there have been a lot of documented issues with it. From burning oil to the cartridge based oil filter system, it doesn't give the owner any comfort that it will be around for awhile.
I have 246,000km on my 2.3L and have used 5W-20 synthetic oil (mostly Mobil1) since 3000km. I won't go as far as vouching for it but you can make your own conclusions.
What's a lot? There is over 3.5 million Mazda 3s out there, meaning most probably over 1 million 2.3 engines. If there was a common issue with the engine, it would be well known by now. But like I said, I haven't heard of any. It's not bulletproof, but it sure isn't no piece of shit either.Quote:
Originally Posted by RedRaptor
_3
1 million 2.3l mazda3s? I'm not sure about that.... only countries that got the 2.3 was USA, Canada, Japan, and Australia