The "Nightmare" Story

[Dave_The_BMXER]

It sucks that the automotive industry is one that admitting your mistakes is rare and often never done. I have been in similar situations and hope it all works out for you Foxy

[Flagrum_3]

For everyones information... Scarboro claims that they didnt touch the car for the 9 hours it was there other then driving it. And yes, in theory they could have effed it up and then claimed they never touched it to cover it up. That would work.

As for the "punk ass kid"... Hes not a punk ass kid and he wasnt as rude as you all may think, he just simply asked some valid questions that Karen could not/would not give an answer for.

And no... no brake work or bearings... otherwise I would have mentioned that.

I have no reason to lie here, i just wanted to get some work done, and if it was good work then I would be MORE THAN happy to praise the shop/dealer for it.

As for the women here with all the catty comments... I think you should all mind your own business and stop perpetuating the bullshyt. I dont give a shyt about Kristina and her personal life, nor do I care for Mazdabetty commenting on her 2 cents for what was said between speedbaby and mzkaye. Thats NOT what this thread is about so please keep the high skewl bs out of this.

Muchly appreciated.

I just would like to know what ppl think about my situation. Because it has been running thru my head since this started and I have no concrete answers as to why or how this happened(not that I really think I am going to get any, but its nice to get feedback).
Thank you.

Kat,

As you say you probably will never get to the end of it....unfortunately!.Soooo you have your new (used axles) in and she's running fine...don't loose anymore sleep over it.

Only question now is who do you trust in the future to work on your car?


I for one have known Dan for quite awhile and trust his 'word' and 'work' 100%...no question.


In karen's defense she may not know exactly what happen either, as I'm sure she didn't actually do the work herself and it is quite possible she has been lied to also-and I don't mean by you Foxy! It's normal for people to get defensive when being accused.Plus there is another party involved although they say they did nothing.


_3

[TokyoKiller]

Wow Foxy, I am so sorry to hear about this ordeal.

You know, I really do not understand why no one seems to listen and just try out Oakville Mazda for once, I know some of you like MoT and Agincourt, or whatever dealership you are near...but Oakville Mazda will never leave you unsatisfied, if your car leaves their dealership in any way different then when you left it with them, they will remedy the problem and make sure you compensated for the unnecessary hassle.

On a side note, I find it really funny that they can just "BAN" you from the dealership, what is this? Kindergarten? Like honestly, you are running a business not a playground to just BAN people when things get heated.

A straight message to Agincourt Mazda, get your shit together and stop "BANNING" people because you could not deliver the expectations of a car enthusiast, we are not are your average customer that just walks in does the listed services and leaves, we know our cars by heart and if you are trying to pull our legs, we KNOW our cars, and what damage we potentially could have put on it.

I am saying this because I notice this isn't the first time someone is banned from this dealership, which may raise a few eyebrows...

[mazdabetty]

So seeing as my post was deleted yesterday, even though I had some valid points, I'll have to restate some of them in Karen's defense, as my experience with Agincourt was a great one.

As originally written, when a tech tells her that he didn't mess up, she needs to give that tech the benefit of the doubt and try to come up with a happy medium for the both of you. After connecting with Karen on a few different occasions, I know she's the type of person who would try to work something out for you, considering the great reputation she has built for herself here. But when your friend jumped in and began mouthing off to her, even though this had nothing to do with him, she did what ANYONE in the same situation would do when feeling threatened, she kicked you out. Whether or not you say your friend was acting inappropriately, it sure sounds like he was, as I'm pretty sure Karen wouldn't just ban someone at random for "asking a few questions".

There's a huge part of the story missing here. (There's two sides to every story right?) Before people jump in here and offer sympathies, maybe we need to hear the other side. 10 pages of great reviews don't lie, Agincourt may have had a terrible reputation prior to Karen taking over, but they have reinvented themselves and have been saving a LOT of people here a lot of grief with various warranty issues. And as I also stated before, mistakes happen, businesses are prepared to cover mistakes that their employees make. I feel that they would have no reason to deny that they made an error.

As per flagrum's post, I completely agree. I don't see an issue here or the need for more "feedback", you got exactly what you wanted.

Dan paid for your parts out of his own pocket, even though he didn't have to, and Karen installed them at no charge. I'm just curious as to the point of this thread? To ruin her reputation? It sounds like you wanted Agincourt to take full blame, even though that's not possible when she was told by her tech that the parts were previously damaged. You did the same thing with your cop thread. You were angry and jumped the gun and posted a picture of the cop car that ticketed you. This is not an adult way of handling these particular issues, and this outcome is the result of you, or your friends, attitude. If this was anyone else, or if you had spoken to her in an orderly fashion, things may have been different.

All that being said, I feel for you having to go through that, you are rightfully upset. But someone said before "don't point fingers until your hands are clean".

Just sayin.

[McGuyver_3]

I didn't want to get involved in this thread but now I think I have to when I lowered that car I DID NOT remove the axles. Karen and I spoke about it and she claims it is easier to lower a car by simply removing them but I lowered my 05 and my 10 as well as Katherine’s 3 without removing the axles because I didn't see a need to. As most of you know I do work at a dealership which I prefer stay unnamed and if I screw something up at work I either a try to fix it if it can be fixed or go to my manager and state the problem at hand and work out a solution. Working on cars you hold the safety of another person’s life in your hand and I would rather admit to my screw up then to cover it up. I did get a chance to see these axles that were removed from the car and to say the least they were more then unsafe and had I caused this damage the car would have not made it this far. I AM NOT STATING that Karen has anything to do with this as I quite frankly do not know and I am not going to push the blame on anyone I want to remain neutral. At work when and if I remove axles I use an air hammer with a punch I NEVER use a hammer exactly for this reason of mushrooming the ends. When I used to work at another dealer which I also want to have remained silent that is all we did hammered them out with a hammer. BUT we left the axle nut on the end and hammered them preventing the mushrooming. I payed and supplied these axles for the only reason being the dealer did not want to cover the axles and they wanted to re-install the old ones on the car. I can understand the dealer had no authorization to install new ones so they really had no other choice. I don't know what transpired between Katherine’s friend and Karen but that almost cost me my time spent leaving early from work going to the wreckers picking up the axles and having them installed. Karen was offended by what was said. Now I don't know what was said but it almost hindered from putting the new axles in.

[kevcol74]

My opinion from what I've heard...
Karen and her mechanics have full responsibility on this UNLESS they took pictures of the axles PRIOR to removing them themslves. If they did not, or did not contact Kat and report it to her and ask for her authorization to proceed, which should have been documented, then they have full responsibility. Obviously someone took the axles apart wrong, having mushroomed the ends and griding them down to re-install.. or, they were mushroomed TRYING to remove them, realized they couldn't, and ground them just get them out! If MCGuyver saw the axles, it should be more than obvious if the grinding was recent or not. They would have been covered in rust if it was not recent, fresh ground metal if it was.
Kat, I'd go over Karen's head on this, and go to Mazda of Canada iff you haven't already. Make damn sure you still have warranty on anything related to those axles. Being used axles, they may give you grief if you don't get something in writing saying your full warranty is still intact. Also, go through your receipt of any work you've had done. See what visit the car was in the shop long enough for anyone to access your axles.. (ie ball joint or tie rod replacement? Or just look at times of "in" and "out", min of 2 hours likely)
Karen could tell her side all she wants, but dealing with upset customers is ALWAYS going to be part of her job. That being the case, she ALWAYS needs to keep it together, and not let it get personal. Banning someone from the shop, thats personal. (unless they feel their well being, or a customer's is being threatened. Arguing a point is not threatening, even if "choice words" are used.)
She may have been defending her mechanics, which is admirable, but also not in the best interest of customer service, which IS her job.
I'm also not talking out my @$$, I was a service writer for a shop for years, I've seen my share. If you can't handle upset customers, you'd better find a new job.

[FoXy]

Kev,

Karen did call me at around 3 or 4 to tell me they were damaged. There was no mention of taking pics or anything like that. Since they close at 6 and I had no way to get there cus I was stranded at home with no car and I am outside of their shuttle "area" I had to go in the next morning.

When I got a ride the next morning and I got there the axles were laying on the floor and the car was up on the hoist. There were no pictures taken before the axles were taken out. All pics were taken after they had been removed.

As well, no rust is on the ends of the shafts. Now I am not sure whether there would be or not because I don't think they are exposed to the elements, but I'm not entirely sure.

I also agree that just cus someone interrogates you and wants answers doesn't mean that you need to get defensive and ban them. And that is what my friend did, he interrogated her and her GM with some tough questions/accusations about the car, there was no threats where she should have felt any danger. If there was nothing going on she or whoever should have been able to have VALID answers to the questions... not vague ones that make no sense (ie different sized nuts, and nuts expanding and thats why they don't fit on etc etc.)

I'm aware that Agincourt has lots of good reviews of oil changes, car washes, and warranty work that there is no reason why there should be a problem anyways, however, I did not have the same experience.

[wikdslo]

I mentioned before about the fact that pics should have been taken before the work was done as proof to provide to customers in this situation.

Also, having had to hammer these out and the main issue is signs of mushrooming from hammering seems a bit.. well.. coincidental.

What I'm wondering now is, if the end was too mangled to get the nut to go back on the axle, how did he get the nut to come OFF the axle without issue when it was already mushroomed so badly that it was useless?

I know Karen frequents these boards and obviously a lot has been talked about without her coming in to state her case.

If and/or when she does, I would be interested to know if these issues were addressed? If they were, I don't think that foxy would have had much ground to stand on at the dealership, and the whole altercation would likely not have taken place.

[kevcol74]

Kev,

Karen did call me at around 3 or 4 to tell me they were damaged. There was no mention of taking pics or anything like that. Since they close at 6 and I had no way to get there cus I was stranded at home with no car and I am outside of their shuttle "area" I had to go in the next morning.

When I got a ride the next morning and I got there the axles were laying on the floor and the car was up on the hoist. There were no pictures taken before the axles were taken out. All pics were taken after they had been removed.

As well, no rust is on the ends of the shafts. Now I am not sure whether there would be or not because I don't think they are exposed to the elements, but I'm not entirely sure.

I also agree that just cus someone interrogates you and wants answers doesn't mean that you need to get defensive and ban them. And that is what my friend did, he interrogated her and her GM with some tough questions/accusations about the car, there was no threats where she should have felt any danger. If there was nothing going on she or whoever should have been able to have VALID answers to the questions... not vague ones that make no sense (ie different sized nuts, and nuts expanding and thats why they don't fit on etc etc.)

I'm aware that Agincourt has lots of good reviews of oil changes, car washes, and warranty work that there is no reason why there should be a problem anyways, however, I did not have the same experience.

I guess my question is did they ask you if they can proceed? Or did they just inform you, and then proceeded without your approval?
One tidbit of knowledge for you. From what I understand, they told you the axle was stripped and ground down. The way axles are made, the threads will NOT strip by the nut. In other words, you can put 500 ft/lbs of torque on that nut, and you will NOT strip the axle, you will strip the nut. How is that you ask? The axles are ALWAYS made of a harder material than the nut. Simple reason, to avoid stripping the axle threads. If they cross thread or over tighten (nearly impossible due to torque tubes used) in the factory, its a hell of alot cheaper to replace a nut than an axle! You can strip a dozen axle nuts off an axle before you damage the threads.
Also, its common knowledge to anyone doing axles that you thread the nut back on the end of the axle to prevent mushrooming if you need to hammer out the axles.
And FTR, moisture has a way to find bare metal, no matter where it is! The axles would have had some sort of rust on them. But I believe you said they admitted to hammering you axles out, and likely mushroomed them, and ground them... leaving no trace of the "original damage" they claim.
I'm really curious who did it, since no one wants to own up to it. Some that thought he knew more than he did.
Good luck Kat, i hope you can get it all figured out, and for those that gave you the short end of the stick... Karma is a bitch!!

[aris]

Good luck Kat, i hope you can get it all figured out, and for those that gave you the short end of the stick... Karma is a bitch!!

+1


Sucks that this happened to you..

[mzkaye729]

I know Karen frequents these boards and obviously a lot has been talked about without her coming in to state her case.

If and/or when she does, I would be interested to know if these issues were addressed? If they were, I don't think that foxy would have had much ground to stand on at the dealership, and the whole altercation would likely not have taken place.

Karen had posted she will not be responding to the "nightmare story" in this post (it was located in another thread):

http://www.torontomazda3.ca/forum/showpost.php?p=504072&postcount=25

[kevcol74]

^ Wow, thats weak! If she believes their shop had no wrong doing, then she should post "her side of the story". We are not all a "judge and jury" out here, but rather some of us would like to help everyone find the answers to questions that are causing the problem. If she cares about her customers and her reputation, she'd still try and help resolve this, and not just "ban" everyone so as to not have to deal with it.
IMO, I will never touch Agincourt at this point, saving a few bucks and covering their asses is more important than customer satisfaction. I have no doubt Mat over at Forbes Mazda in Waterloo would do whatever it took to make the customer walk out happy. Thats why I'm taking my Ford Escape to a Mazda dealer for work. Mat has impressed me so much, that he has my Ford business now!

[S.F.W.]

Thats why I'm taking my Ford Escape to a Mazda dealer for work. Mat has impressed me so much, that he has my Ford business now!

And Karen has impressed me to the extent, she is getting my Mazda, Toyota, and Ford business.
As for weak in not posting a response. I disagree, it's her/Agicnourt's choice not to get into a way of words, as nothing is likely to get accomplished.

[kevcol74]

^ Its a tough call, some of us would like all the details to help resolve things for both parties, but some members will just use it as fuel to attack Karen... so its unfortunate, but I understand if she doesn't respond....
Its like playing Clue right now... I just want to solve the mystery! lol

[DumpInfo]

I knew this thread would definitely get out of hand. I'm surprised it's not locked yet.

[FLIPDADY]

Thats why I'm taking my Ford Escape to a Mazda dealer for work. Mat has impressed me so much, that he has my Ford business now!

Escape/Tribute = same thing

I think the Escape is better equipped though.

[aris]

[QUOTE=kevcol74;505113]^ Wow, thats weak! If she believes their shop had no wrong doing, then she should post "her side of the story". We are not all a "judge and jury" out here, but rather some of us would like to help everyone find the answers to questions that are causing the problem. If she cares about her customers and her reputation, she'd still try and help resolve this, and not just "ban" everyone so as to not have to deal with it.
IMO, I will never touch Agincourt at this point, saving a few bucks and covering their asses is more important than customer satisfaction. I have no doubt Mat over at Forbes Mazda in Waterloo would do whatever it took to make the customer walk out happy.QUOTE]


Well said kev

[MattC]

Shitty deal man,

But its yet another reason why you never let a stealership touch your car.

Obviously only knowing your perspective on the story it seems like this employee conducted herself in a extremely unprofessional manor. My question would be, If she and her techs were innocent, why give such an emotional response and get so agitated?

If in fact they were completely in the clear, she would only need to keep stating the facts, and apologize for the fact there is nothing they can do.

+1 to Dan, he is a stand up guy and definitely deserves a beer for his effort on this one.

[Silv3r]

Wow what a nightmare indeed. Sorry for your bad "luck" Foxy. I always feel like I have problems with car repairs but I don't think I have had anything like this happen (came close but your takes the cake). I'm kinda disappointed I didn't jump into the thread sooner before it got cleaned up! Who needs t.v ?

Jokes asides, shame there will probably be no reply from Karen but its understandable as to why a written response on here will not be forthcoming.

If I were you and truly felt I have been wronged (and you seem to be...) I would go above Karen/Agincourt and as someone already mentioned and file a written complaint/request to investigate this further with Mazda. I would pursue it on a regular basis just to see what comes from it, just for shits and giggles.

I am curious as to what would take for someone to get banned from a dealership (does it take three fbombs? maybe 4? or one "I'll see you when you get off, you better have someone walk you to your car tonight")

On a side note, I have not been to Agincourt or met Karen but I have noticed the positive feedback (on the most part) which made me consider taking my car there for my next service and some other concerns. I don't think this tale of misfortune will completely sway me from still doing just that but it does give me something to think about, to not simply hand over the keys without worrying when I am there and maybe a possible conversation topic if I bump into Karen.

[mazdabetty]

+1 to Dan, he is a stand up guy and definitely deserves a beer for his effort on this one.

Yeah... that and maybe a "thanks Dan"...

[wikdslo]

^ Wow, thats weak! If she believes their shop had no wrong doing, then she should post "her side of the story".

Yup, I would have to agree with that. If she has a valid reason for her actions (referring to not warrantying the axles, etc.) Otherwise, the emotional outburst aside (which was a factor of already stating she would not warranty them) I would make my own judgement that the dealership did not handle this situation correctly and don't want to foot any bill.

[MattC]

I doubt the accused will post a response, since its not just fun and games to them, they have a job and paycheck to worry about. Frankly I wouldn't blame them, I wouldn't post one either.

[mzkaye729]

^ Wow, thats weak! If she believes their shop had no wrong doing, then she should post "her side of the story". We are not all a "judge and jury" out here, but rather some of us would like to help everyone find the answers to questions that are causing the problem.

I am probably the only one on here that thinks Karen does not owe ANYBODY any type of explanation unless they are directly involved with the situation. That would be Kat and Kat alone.

I hope this all gets "resolved" in a timely manner as I can tell how stressful it is for Kat to not be able to find out exactly what is happening and why it happened.

[Karen Lee-McNair]

ok, so i'm sorry, i lied, i am going to post on the "nightmare story",

but only to some relevant points as I think they have been slightly construed in this story...

1. I want to make it VERY CLEAR to everyone here, that I NEVER said that it was because of DAN!! i repeatedly said to Kat, Dan and Adam that I would prefer to leave Dan out of this. It is impossible for me to blame ANYONE as I was not there, and would respectfully not like to continuously bring up someone's name on this forum, as well as who is in the same trade with me, and share professional courtesy

2. Kat was contacted within 30 minutes of the car being in the shop, and 2 hours within drop off, pictures were taken as well, Kat and Adam chose to arrive after 24 hours, and AFTER pics were taken. I also offered these pics to Kat on Friday and notified her that they were time stamped before removing them from my camera.

3. I have NEVER banned anyone from the dealer personally!! I think it is funny that every feels they are "banned", excluding one person here who really is banned. Adam is not a Mazda owner,but has been asked not to return, it's not as though I would not answer him - his questions and statements did not make technical sense. We notified him of this. Both Adam and Kat admitted to him storming into the dealer and behaving a certain way without Kat being aware,she also apologized for his behaviour on Friday. Kat, i never said you were banned either, I'm not quite sure where this is coming from. I did however state I was not comfortable installed the scrap yard parts without your presence, which is why I had asked Dan to stay.

4. In reference to the "i could have taken them off another car" - this was very construed!! I was trying to say, if we had damaged the vehicle, it would
have been very easy for me to cover it up, if that was the way I handled things

5. Just to clarify, I did not have the opportunity to relay options to Kat, we spoke about this further on Friday (and you seemed to have a very different perspective, which is why this post somewhat surprises me)
I was struck down immediately by her male friends, and accused rather than having a chance to discuss. I informed Kat that I was willing to put the parts on at cost and charge no labour - I did not want to make money from her, simply to assist her.

6. axle shafts are 99.9% released when replace shocks/springs.
Yes, anything can be done differently, but it would be a hell of a lot harder and more time consuming to remove springs without releasing the shaft.
The whole install story is very confusing.

Thanks for hearing me out...

Karen

[Iceman_F1]

Not knowing this dealership or any parties involved (Other than Dan), I'll just say one thing...

As for weak in not posting a response. I disagree, it's her/Agicnourt's choice not to get into a way of words, as nothing is likely to get accomplished.

I completely agree with this point. Yes, Foxy had a reason to post her displeasure about the situation. But in no way does Karen/Againcourt have to come on here and explain themselves while the situation is currently happening/not resolved. To me, this is a private dispute between the parties involved and it would be best for them to work it out on their own. Whether that's Foxy escalating the issue to a higher position in Mazda or such or trying to get together with Againcourt to try and work things out, it's really between them.

As stated, there will always be 2 sides to every story. So far, we've heard one side. Would it be nice to hear the other, yes. But it isn't for us to demand anything from anyone in this situation as we are not directly involved in it.

There's been quite a few "horror stories" dealing with the dealerships. Most of the cases I've read seems to be the customer posting pretty fast after the situation without waiting to try and contact the dealership to see if anything can be resolved. IMO, if things can be resolved first, that would go a long way. If not, then a post saying the situation and then what they are next going to plan might be a good way to post. I think most places would rather try to deal with the situation first before things get said that can make things worse. More often than not they can be fix or resolved. When not, trying to keep things as neutral as possible is best. State only the facts without trying to assume anything.

Just my

EDIT: Karen posted above me...so some of this is wrong...but still my opinion at the time